Turbo Manifolds
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Turbo Manifolds
How big of a difference do different turbo manifolds make and what is the best one. Please tell me HOW much difference there is and send me some links to good ones describin which is better in what ways. Thanks!
#3
Coming from a DSM and Typhoon background... Ill let you know that going tubular manifolds arent nessacarily worth it. It all depends on what youre going for, street or track.... or a combo.
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Re: (random_tuner)
full-race made a write up w/ video of a car w/ a log and a ramhorn....gains were noticeable ( 50 hp more or less) especially in the midrange!
#6
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Re: (N20civicB18)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by N20civicB18 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah how come most DSM guys always stay with cast? reliabilty?</TD></TR></TABLE>
probably most v8 guys still run carberators...... ignorance.
probably most v8 guys still run carberators...... ignorance.
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Re: (dturbocivic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dturbocivic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
probably most v8 guys still run carberators...... ignorance.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't know why, but I LOLed at that one. Almost spit my coffee on the computer.
probably most v8 guys still run carberators...... ignorance.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't know why, but I LOLed at that one. Almost spit my coffee on the computer.
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#8
Man U FTW
Re: (RyanEJ8)
<FONT SIZE="7">Manifold</FONT>
There are many different manifolds that can be used on turbo cars. Choosing a manifold is an important step in your build. There are a few different styles to chose from and what you pick usually depends on the budget. I'm not going to add opinion into this thread, but SSAutoChrome sells many different variations of manifolds on Ebay that replicate all sorts of EL manis from different companies. They don't have the greatest reputation around, but again, i'm not going to get into who's better and who isn't.
<FONT SIZE="5">Cast Manifold</FONT>
Cast manis are the cheapest of all of the manifolds...generally. They are used in most factory kits from InlinePro, Edelbrock, Drag and RevHard because they are the most durable manifolds around. There are good designs and bad designs when it comes to cast manis. The location of the WG is a big concern and the best mani is the InlinePro cast mani because the WG location is in the center...rather than being on one of the exhaust runners. This helps control boost better and eliminates boost creep and spiking.
Bad
Good
<FONT SIZE="5">Log Manifold</FONT>
Cheap and easy tubular manifold....best bang for the buck on a sub-400hp build. They limit top end flow, but will do the trick for most street apps. Usually cost $180-300
<FONT SIZE="5">Shorty Log</FONT>
The shorty log is a variation on the log mani. It offers a little better top end flow, but still has the same low profile as the standard log mani. They usually cost a little more than a standard log. ($300-400)
<FONT SIZE="5">Miniram</FONT>
The shorty is another step towards a full blown EL mani. It offers much better flow than a standard log mani. They are usually PS and AC friendly but it really depends on the manufacturer and the specific style. Prices usually range from $400-650.
<FONT SIZE="5"> Ramhorn</FONT>
The Ramhorn style EL mani is one of the more common eq styles because it is simple, compact and can occassionally accomodate for AC or PS....but not usually. These manis range from $600-1400 depending on the size piping, manufacturer and useage.
<FONT SIZE="5"> topmount</FONT>
Top mount mani's are the best manis you can buy. They flow air and allow power to continue all the way up to redline. These manis cost the most and make power to compensate for the cost. On a big hp build, this is the only way to go. Top mounts usually cost from $650-1500....
<FONT SIZE="5">the sidewinder</FONT>
The sidewinder is a fairly new mani and is currently marketed by LoveFab for the B series engine and the Honda S2000. It is just another version of the EL mani and usually costs about the same. It does allow the car to keep PS and AC.....
Modified by Schister66 at 5:39 AM 12/19/2006
There are many different manifolds that can be used on turbo cars. Choosing a manifold is an important step in your build. There are a few different styles to chose from and what you pick usually depends on the budget. I'm not going to add opinion into this thread, but SSAutoChrome sells many different variations of manifolds on Ebay that replicate all sorts of EL manis from different companies. They don't have the greatest reputation around, but again, i'm not going to get into who's better and who isn't.
<FONT SIZE="5">Cast Manifold</FONT>
Cast manis are the cheapest of all of the manifolds...generally. They are used in most factory kits from InlinePro, Edelbrock, Drag and RevHard because they are the most durable manifolds around. There are good designs and bad designs when it comes to cast manis. The location of the WG is a big concern and the best mani is the InlinePro cast mani because the WG location is in the center...rather than being on one of the exhaust runners. This helps control boost better and eliminates boost creep and spiking.
Bad
Good
<FONT SIZE="5">Log Manifold</FONT>
Cheap and easy tubular manifold....best bang for the buck on a sub-400hp build. They limit top end flow, but will do the trick for most street apps. Usually cost $180-300
<FONT SIZE="5">Shorty Log</FONT>
The shorty log is a variation on the log mani. It offers a little better top end flow, but still has the same low profile as the standard log mani. They usually cost a little more than a standard log. ($300-400)
<FONT SIZE="5">Miniram</FONT>
The shorty is another step towards a full blown EL mani. It offers much better flow than a standard log mani. They are usually PS and AC friendly but it really depends on the manufacturer and the specific style. Prices usually range from $400-650.
<FONT SIZE="5"> Ramhorn</FONT>
The Ramhorn style EL mani is one of the more common eq styles because it is simple, compact and can occassionally accomodate for AC or PS....but not usually. These manis range from $600-1400 depending on the size piping, manufacturer and useage.
<FONT SIZE="5"> topmount</FONT>
Top mount mani's are the best manis you can buy. They flow air and allow power to continue all the way up to redline. These manis cost the most and make power to compensate for the cost. On a big hp build, this is the only way to go. Top mounts usually cost from $650-1500....
<FONT SIZE="5">the sidewinder</FONT>
The sidewinder is a fairly new mani and is currently marketed by LoveFab for the B series engine and the Honda S2000. It is just another version of the EL mani and usually costs about the same. It does allow the car to keep PS and AC.....
Originally Posted by Turbo By Garrett
Manifold design on turbocharged applications is deceptively complex as there many factors to take into account and trade off
General design tips for best overall performance are to:
* Maximize the radius of the bends that make up the exhaust primaries to maintain pulse energy
* Make the exhaust primaries equal length to balance exhaust reversion across all cylinders
* Avoid rapid area changes to maintain pulse energy to the turbine
* At the collector, introduce flow from all runners at a narrow angle to minimize "turning" of the flow in the collector
* For better boost response, minimize the exhaust volume between the exhaust ports and the turbine inlet
* For best power, tuned primary lengths can be used
Cast manifolds are commonly found on OEM applications, whereas welded tubular manifolds are found almost exclusively on aftermarket and race applications. Both manifold types have their advantages and disadvantages. Cast manifolds are generally very durable and are usually dedicated to one application. They require special tooling for the casting and machining of specific features on the manifold. This tooling can be expensive.
On the other hand, welded tubular manifolds can be custom-made for a specific application without special tooling requirements. The manufacturer typically cuts pre-bent steel U-bends into the desired geometry and then welds all of the components together. Welded tubular manifolds are a very effective solution. One item of note is durability of this design. Because of the welded joints, thinner wall sections, and reduced stiffness, these types of manifolds are often susceptible to cracking due to thermal expansion/contraction and vibration. Properly constructed tubular manifolds can last a long time, however. In addition, tubular manifolds can offer a substantial performance advantage over a log-type manifold.
A design feature that can be common to both manifold types is a " DIVIDED MANIFOLD" , typically employed with " DIVIDED " or "twin-scroll" turbine housings. Divided exhaust manifolds can be incorporated into either a cast or welded tubular manifolds
The concept is to DIVIDE or separate the cylinders whose cycles interfere with one another to best utilize the engine's exhaust pulse energy.
For example, on a four-cylinder engine with firing order 1-3-4-2, cylinder #1 is ending its expansion stroke and opening its exhaust valve while cylinder #2 still has its exhaust valve open (cylinder #2 is in its overlap period). In an undivided exhaust manifold, this pressure pulse from cylinder #1's exhaust blowdown event is much more likely to contaminate cylinder #2 with high pressure exhaust gas. Not only does this hurt cylinder #2's ability to breathe properly, but this pulse energy would have been better utilized in the turbine.
The proper grouping for this engine is to keep complementary cylinders grouped together-- #1 and #4 are complementary; as are cylinders #2 and #3.
Because of the better utilization of the exhaust pulse energy, the turbine's performance is improved and boost increases more quickly.
General design tips for best overall performance are to:
* Maximize the radius of the bends that make up the exhaust primaries to maintain pulse energy
* Make the exhaust primaries equal length to balance exhaust reversion across all cylinders
* Avoid rapid area changes to maintain pulse energy to the turbine
* At the collector, introduce flow from all runners at a narrow angle to minimize "turning" of the flow in the collector
* For better boost response, minimize the exhaust volume between the exhaust ports and the turbine inlet
* For best power, tuned primary lengths can be used
Cast manifolds are commonly found on OEM applications, whereas welded tubular manifolds are found almost exclusively on aftermarket and race applications. Both manifold types have their advantages and disadvantages. Cast manifolds are generally very durable and are usually dedicated to one application. They require special tooling for the casting and machining of specific features on the manifold. This tooling can be expensive.
On the other hand, welded tubular manifolds can be custom-made for a specific application without special tooling requirements. The manufacturer typically cuts pre-bent steel U-bends into the desired geometry and then welds all of the components together. Welded tubular manifolds are a very effective solution. One item of note is durability of this design. Because of the welded joints, thinner wall sections, and reduced stiffness, these types of manifolds are often susceptible to cracking due to thermal expansion/contraction and vibration. Properly constructed tubular manifolds can last a long time, however. In addition, tubular manifolds can offer a substantial performance advantage over a log-type manifold.
A design feature that can be common to both manifold types is a " DIVIDED MANIFOLD" , typically employed with " DIVIDED " or "twin-scroll" turbine housings. Divided exhaust manifolds can be incorporated into either a cast or welded tubular manifolds
The concept is to DIVIDE or separate the cylinders whose cycles interfere with one another to best utilize the engine's exhaust pulse energy.
For example, on a four-cylinder engine with firing order 1-3-4-2, cylinder #1 is ending its expansion stroke and opening its exhaust valve while cylinder #2 still has its exhaust valve open (cylinder #2 is in its overlap period). In an undivided exhaust manifold, this pressure pulse from cylinder #1's exhaust blowdown event is much more likely to contaminate cylinder #2 with high pressure exhaust gas. Not only does this hurt cylinder #2's ability to breathe properly, but this pulse energy would have been better utilized in the turbine.
The proper grouping for this engine is to keep complementary cylinders grouped together-- #1 and #4 are complementary; as are cylinders #2 and #3.
Because of the better utilization of the exhaust pulse energy, the turbine's performance is improved and boost increases more quickly.
Modified by Schister66 at 5:39 AM 12/19/2006
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Ok thanks for the replies, now I was thinking either this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...QrdZ1
Or this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...QrdZ1
I want to keep my PS/AC and have the most power with a budjet of under 500 bucks.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...QrdZ1
Or this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...QrdZ1
I want to keep my PS/AC and have the most power with a budjet of under 500 bucks.
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Re: (Schister66)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Schister66 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you cheap out, then you're going to end up paying for the shitty manifold and a good one....spend the extra money and do it right the first time</TD></TR></TABLE>
best advise ever. do it once it might be more money at first but it will LAST
best advise ever. do it once it might be more money at first but it will LAST
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Re: (MujetDereh)
You can get any of those styles listed above from this website. Ebay **** is just that, ****. If its going to be a 300whp or less street car, you will be fine with a cast or log mani. Those run $200-300. The best for the street would be a 'shorty' manifold. Quicker spool than logs, and almost as much high-end power as a ramhorn or topmount.
#19
Man U FTW
lol just read what i posted above and then search the Marketplace....
http://www.HondaMarketPlace.com
http://www.HondaMarketPlace.com
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Re: (Schister66)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Schister66 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><FONT SIZE="7">Manifold</FONT>
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Awesome post! I KNOW that one helped many many people.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Awesome post! I KNOW that one helped many many people.
#23
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Ok let me make it simple, can you guys PLEASE give me the link to the best manifold for my setup and the best price (im prolly gettin annoying but i really dont want to make a mistake so please bare with me thank you very large)
Engine:
Darton sleeves, wiseco 81 mm low comp pistons, golden eagle rods, crower valve springs crower retainers, ferrea valves, crower stage 2 camshafts, port/polished b18b head, cam gears, t3/t4 turbo kit
Im hoping for 350 whp out of my turbo and also the handy nos switch for the track. its going to be a daily driver + nos at track. So please let me know, and if theres any more info you need about my setup let me know. Thanks!
Engine:
Darton sleeves, wiseco 81 mm low comp pistons, golden eagle rods, crower valve springs crower retainers, ferrea valves, crower stage 2 camshafts, port/polished b18b head, cam gears, t3/t4 turbo kit
Im hoping for 350 whp out of my turbo and also the handy nos switch for the track. its going to be a daily driver + nos at track. So please let me know, and if theres any more info you need about my setup let me know. Thanks!
#24
#25
Re: (Schister66)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Schister66 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Equal Length Mani......The Ramhorn
The Ramhorn style EL mani is one of the more common eq styles because it is simple, compact and can occassionally accomodate for AC or PS....but not usually. These manis range from $600-1400 depending on the size piping, manufacturer and useage.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Okay, let's get one thing straight.
<FONT SIZE="3">A RAMHORN IS NOT EQUAL LENGTH. PERIOD.</FONT>
Look at it once more and tell me I'm wrong.
Equal Length Mani......The Ramhorn
The Ramhorn style EL mani is one of the more common eq styles because it is simple, compact and can occassionally accomodate for AC or PS....but not usually. These manis range from $600-1400 depending on the size piping, manufacturer and useage.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Okay, let's get one thing straight.
<FONT SIZE="3">A RAMHORN IS NOT EQUAL LENGTH. PERIOD.</FONT>
Look at it once more and tell me I'm wrong.