Da1WiTsKiLz

I had a couple of days off work so I decided to throw my car on the dyno. I previously had a Greddy 18g setup (Dyno thread https://honda-tech.com/forced-induct...ideo*-3187312/) which was a lot of fun but lacked all top end power. After that dyno session I sold the Greddy parts and threw on a Turbonetics T04B Super S trim turbo with .48 exhaust housing on a Blox manifold w/ 2.5" downpipe and exhaust. That was the perfect setup for a daily driven LS, it was responsive but power still fell off in the top end. I traded the turbo to a friend who will be putting it on a turbocharged Toyota 4runner. In return he gave me a Precision 5031e. To go with the larger turbo I fabbed up a 3" stainless downpipe with a 3" electric cutout to help spool and responsiveness.

1999 Integra LS, B18B1 with 82K miles
-Head milled .006", ARP head studs, OEM head gasket
-Blox turbo manifold
-Precision 5031e (50 Trim T04E cold side with a T31 exhaust wheel in a .63 T3 housing)
-Turbosmart 38mm Ultragate with external dump
-Custom 3" downpipe -> 2.36" Apexi WS2 exhaust
-3" QTP cutout on downpipe
-2" hot side piping, 2.5" cold side piping
-350hp Spearco intercooler
-Skunk2 intake manifold
-560cc Evo 9 injectors
-190LPH Walbro fuel pump
-Tuned by myself on Hondata s300 with boost by gear

Final results, 286hp at 17psi with the exhaust cutout open (on a dynojet).

I got the original graph with no torque values so I ripped into Excel, converted to RPMs and added the torque graph



Original graph can be seen here:
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s85/da1witskilz/Forum/2500532a-ade9-40b0-a2c7-73e32cc94ced_zpspcujkrb7.jpg

Overall, I'm a little disappointed with the numbers (again, lol). I was expecting to break 300hp with this setup with less PSI. Timing at 17psi was at 17* and my AFR's were right at 11.5:1. Based on my previous 18G graph and this one I think this dyno reads low. Either way, I am thinking of throwing a set of 62403's or 62404's in there with upgraded valvetrain to see if I can extend the powerband up to ~8200RPMs. Any thoughts are welcome!

boosted94gsr

Nice man! We have very similar setups.

Dark_Teg

Nice budget build and props for tuning it yourself.

$amGD3

that seems a LITTLE low? I made 279 @10 psi but on a b16a2 on a PTE 5431 (successor to your turbo)

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

Stop swapping turbos and swap that head

blackeg

is your external dumptube anywhere near the turbo inlet? ive seen that rob power before with the intake charge being oxygen starved.

cams will help, but like it or not hatchy has a point...

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

Pretty sure a VTEC head would just outflow anything you have planned for the LS head. You'll make considerable gains.

Da1WiTsKiLz

Thanks, I just read your entire build thread. We have very similar thought processes. One thing I'm curious about is why you run so little timing? On the dyno it seemed like 17* at 17psi was a little aggressive but yours seems to be around 11*? Granted, I can run a little more timing due to a more free flowing exhaust setup.

I would expect the LS to make less than the B16 since it has a much lower redline. My old 18g only dyno'd at 235hp at 14psi with a 3" open downpipe so I'm not sure if its a low reading dyno.

The dumptube is pointed straight at the ground and ends near the a/c compressor. The turbo has the compressor on the passenger side with a short intake pipe pointed upward.

This run was the 4th hot pass in a row on a humid 92* day. The #'s are corrected but they wont correct for a heat soaked engine/intercooler/coolant temps. I'm not sure I can attribute a 20-40 hp deficit to a hot engine on a hot day though. I have a freshly resurfaced B16 head, ITR Skunk2 IM and 70mm TB sitting on the shelf but if I go LS/V then I will build the bottom end and upgrade to a better manifold/downpipe. Cams will be an easier/quicker upgrade. I want to get a few thousand more miles on this setup before I completely tear it apart.

boosted94gsr

[QUOTE=Da1WiTsKiLz;50493457]Thanks, I just read your entire build thread. We have very similar thought processes. One thing I'm curious about is why you run so little timing? On the dyno it seemed like 17* at 17psi was a little aggressive but yours seems to be around 11*? Granted, I can run a little more timing due to a more free flowing exhaust setup.



I'm running about 15* at 16psi now. I learned how to tune myself and I started out very conservative at the beginning. The closest dyno to my is 3 1/2 hours away so it's 100% street/track tuned. My setup doesn't seem to like a whole lot of timing based on how my plugs look after a pull, it's pretty happy around 15*.

What octane fuel are you using?

Da1WiTsKiLz

[QUOTE=boosted94gsr;50493549]Ah okay. 15* at 16PSI on this size turbo seems pretty close. I may back my timing off 1-2* to make it a little safer on the street. I am using 93 octane but I am planning to do a meth kit in the nearish future.

LightningTeg

Hmm. That's about what I made on 17lbs with my GT2560R. What were the IAT's like?

B20VtecVillain

I don't think the numbers are bad for your setup, especially considering its street/self tuned so I'm sure you are fairly conservative in your map. More aggressive turbo friendly cams will definately wake it up, but the Blox log is holding you back a great deal as well. A proper manifold would definately be worth implementing, and personally I would do that even before going LS/V or building the block, etc. either way, props on the self tune and looks like a fun street setup.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

That power is about right considering the slightly conservative tuning and cylinder head efficiency of an LS with that turbo

Da1WiTsKiLz

I have no idea how you were able to get those numbers out of an internally gated turbo on an LS. Here are the stats for my 2 setups. I imagine your fuel and timing was similar.

My dyno session from 1.5 years ago with the 18g had the following:
Outside air temps:40*f
IAT:106*f
ECT:180*f
Timing:19*
Inj Duty:450cc 91% at redline
at 14psi it put down 235/220.


This session with the SC50:
Outside air temps:95*f
IAT:142*f
ECT:195*f
Timing: 17*
Inj Duty: 560cc 84% at redline
at 17psi it put down 286/239

Da1WiTsKiLz

I'm happy to hear that

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Stock LS cams definitely aren't doing you any favors.

A decent set of cams should help, especially with that intake manifold.

LightningTeg

Idk man. I ended up cranking it to 21 psi and making right around 300/300. the turbo was obviously at its max because it wouldn't hold boost beyond 19lbs without some help from the EBC. With my 18G before that, it made 254/24x on 12lbs.

Holy hell 146? That is definitely the killer right there. Thats like supercharger IAT's. I think you need to look at where your drawing the intake air from.

Go back when its like 60 out and you will definitely pick up a good amount of power.

VegaS10

I'm using Crower 404 cams in my LS head. Good power and drivability on the street as well.

boosted94gsr

What turbo and manifold are you running with those 404s? Power level? For the op with his turbo and manifold I would think the 403s would be a better fit. I will be dropping some 403s in my ls in the near future as I want to retain better drivability.

phaphon

Nice numbers .makes me feel like I should of went with a budget set up as you made similar numbers as I did basically .

B20VtecVillain

What is your intake setup before the turbo? Is it just a filter right off the charger? 140+ degree Intake temps aren't doing you any favors at all for power. I would bet with no other changes you could see 300 at the same boost level but dropping your IATs.

VegaS10

I'm running a Go-Autoworks cast manifold and Turbonetics t4/to4b .63 turbo (Victor X intake mani, Skunk2 Alpha 68tb, wiseco/manley 81.5 bottom end).

Car made 375hp/295tq.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

The "T04B" that Go-Auto really describes is actually a compressor cover and not what the airflow compression capabilities are. The fact that a T4 turbine housing is used means that the overall volute is larger, even with the same turbine wheel used, so, in conjunction with a larger intake manifold like a Victor x which is made for upper rpm power, this graph makes reasonable sense.

Having said that, the T04B is actually a "Super V" compressor wheel that is actually smaller overall and less efficient than the 50 trim of the SC50, even though the Super V is 55mm vs. 53.9mm on the inducer.

The "magic" actually happens with compressor wheel design and splitter styes along with the wheel exducer size and backwall angle. (this is on the compressor wheel only.. a little different on the turbine side)

The Super V's exducer is 69.85mm, vs. 76.2mm on the 50 trim. The design and backwall of the super V is rather ancient compared to the 50 trim, and therefore, can reach a surge limit much more quickly than a 50 trim (thanks to that backwall design of the exducer), despite the slightly faster initial spool of the Super V. The only interesting part of the Super V using a T4 is that its probably using a F1-57 exhaust wheel, which can make more top end power than the 65mm exhaust wheel that the SC5031 has.

So, its a matter of what you're trying to do. 375whp no problem for the F1-57 wheel, but the Super V is surging.. begging to stop because it can't compress anymore air.

For the 5031, better overall compressor wheel efficiency as you increase boost, and until you get to about 400whp, the exhaust wheel will do just fine.

All this unimpressive techno-babble is to say that at 375whp, that super V and 5031 are both capable turbochargers on an LS. With the Victor X, of course, upper rpm power is obviously made, but torqueband suffers.

Therefore OP.. Just keep what you have and don't worry about the comparison until you get the camshafts.

Geis

I'm other words, we're NOT impressed :^)
Jkjk but seriously though..it does look a little torque lacking sub 4500, but I would guess is still pretty fun , even on the streets. Just have to vroom vroom a little more.

d16drag-on

Nice numbers. I made 221whp with 57 trim @ 13psi on s300 with my stock LS. The head needs a port in order to flow better, you'll see an increase in response and torque immediately, or just add a vtec head and call it a day. Compared to my 75mm SOHC Vitara setup, you're making 10hp more at the same psi level and I'm running the .48AR hot side but with larger compressor wheel.