HYBRID_H@TCH

Ok here is the deal. my engine came equipped with whats called a hydro cam chain tensioner which uses a ratchet style piece that locks the piston in the tensioner from going back in unless a lever is moved and pinned in place, then with higher rpm comes more oil pressure which pushes the piston harder to keep the slack down on the timing chain. well this design by honda sucked *** because the ratchet piece quickly wears its teeth down and the piston is then allowed to move in and out with nothing to stop it. so after reading on a few sites I found that the CBR and yamaha R6 have the same kind of tensioner and are big problems, and a company named APE makes a manual tensioner which replaces the **** auto/hydro tensioner and stops the known issues.

so my question is.. I made a manual tensioner but am concerned that without the use of oil pressure at higher rpms the chain may slip. I know the V8's run a chain and was just wondering if a regular manual tensioner should be fine or if I really need the aid of the oil pressure to push harder..

pics of my contraption....just a rough build to see if it will work...

A.E Motoring

iTrader: (1)

my friend and his builder are having the same exact problem, keep ******* up tensioners on his 300hp NA car

HYBRID_H@TCH

any info?

null.

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=28038

HYBRID_H@TCH

yeah I have seen that, doesnt help much..

SD_Lurker

iTrader: (4)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HYBRID_H@TCH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah I have seen that, doesnt help much..</TD></TR></TABLE>

It doesn't help because you don't know how to do what he is saying? Or it doesn't help much because it doesn't work? elaborate would ya? It seems like it will work just fine and it obviously worked for him.

HYBRID_H@TCH

it doesnt help because the "ratchet system" still wears the teeth down and you will get a flopping timing chain.

I posted in that thread before on how I used a rod as a mechanical stop to which I thought worked but it only prevented bent valves. Iam trying to stop the hole problem altogether and not have to change out tensioners every week or 2..

DaveF

can you post a picture of how the tensioner fits on the engine? i dont see why you cant just eliminate that thing and make your own.

HYBRID_H@TCH

heres a pic I found on the net that I croped to show just the chain area...tensioner is the piece with the orange lever.

Fitti

David,

Maybe Tyler Hara has had this issue or even the CM team. Hopefully the can chime in and shed some light on this for you.

Is your car going to be ready for Vegas?

Maybe Cen Cali can caravan down there

HYBRID_H@TCH

Norris says the CM team use's stock tensioners.....

Boostfed

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HYBRID_H@TCH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Norris says the CM team use's stock tensioners.....</TD></TR></TABLE>

My buddy Shad has an All Motor K Series motor, well a few and he has had no issues with the tensioner at all

DaveF

so the tensioner pushes on the large aluminum guide piece ?

HYBRID_H@TCH

yes.

funny thing is some go thru tensioners like there water and others have no problems at all!!!

from everything I have been reading..it happens ALOT more often on motors with high rate springs and wild profile cams...

*edit*

also I did some testing with a valve spring tester a few minutes ago...it seems that the oil pressure that goes into the tensioner does NOT supply more force on the chain, but acts as a hydrolic stop so the piston does not go back into the valve body. so when you start the car its all Dependant on the ratchet and spring and once oil pressure comes up its sorta locked inplace by hydro force. Also it took almost 25 psi of oil pressure before the orifice in the valve body allowed any oil to enter the valve body...

so from what I tested and what I have found...the tensioner only uses oil to lock the tensioner and not supply xtra force..and at startup and decell the tensioner works off of the spring and ratchet...


Modified by HYBRID_H@TCH at 1:28 PM 5/28/2007

DaveF

i say use that contraption you made, but use an allen head bolt, and keep that lock nut on the end of it so it cant come loose after you tension it.

HYBRID_H@TCH

Iam going to for now, but just found out something else..

my buddy just brought me over a stock tensioner from a K24 and inside of it it has a washer type deal with a small ball bearing..it seems it lets oil pressure in but wont let it back out! so now I think I know why my tensioners have gone bad..everytime I pulled a bad one off my car that ball bearing is just loose in there and falls out once I take it apart..looks like the spring force or the piston slamming down breaks this washer piece that holds the ball bearing inplace and it wont hold oil pressure allowing the piston to just slam down..

null.

well i had my stock tensioner go out on me, but i switched to a toda tensioner and i have had no problems at all. this was n/a with cams and valvetrain

V-SPEC 1

Please let us know if you figure out how to solve this problem. thank you.

HYBRID_H@TCH

Just a little update....

I finally had the ***** to say screw it and put on my "contraption" and fallowed specs on a motorcycle site for adjusting the chain free play and fired the car up! had a little bit of chain noise at first so I waited for it to fully warm up and things to expand then shut it down and gave my tensioner about a 1/4 more turn then put all the covers back on and re-fired it..NO NOISE!!! and ran smoother than it ever has!!! so I let the fan cycle 3 times then did a 8000 rpm 2 step (scared **** was going to go bad) and it went fine..so to try and test this more I did a 10K rpm 2 step into a rolling burnout and all went great!!! now on to build one that looks good....

FYI..

something I noticed is the car had ALOT sharper throttle response and rev'ed ALOT faster!! I guess my old tensioner was **** for awhile and Iam damn lucky I didnt lose the motor!

PrecisionH23a

I personally have done around 7 full K series builds that are making 300+whp (FI) and I have yet to run into this problem luckily. On each of the builds I will always replace the tensioner with a new OEM one though.

Keep us updated on how your invention works out long term

DaveF

did you have to block off a port where the oil pressure comes from to go into the tensioner? i didnt see anywhere, that you wrote that?

HYBRID_H@TCH

I didnt think to right that at the time, but, yes the port in the tensioner body itself has been welded closed and is doing great.

Boostfed

David, I dunno whats going on with your set up BUT I asked a couple fo K series guys today, one Shad who has an all motor K, well a bunch of all motor Ks with no issues. I also spoke to Jeremy Allen over at InlinePro and he stated they have had no issues with their K series either

Good luck man

HYBRID_H@TCH

yeah alot of people say that aswell, but, if you search around you will see that alot are having problems..Iam starting to wonder if its only some year blocks, guildes or what that are doing it...