The Weather Man

Just a quick question - i've seen numerous dynos with turboed hondas.........but they can't seem to get that good torque.........

I myself have an H22a.........getting ready for boost - but whats the point of high HP numbers when there's little torque?

How do you accomplish both worlds?

1boostedcivic

wtf? turbo hondas make the most torque of any honda...

The Weather Man

.........? I'm talking about ways to get the torque higher........

Example: A 271whp doing 208tq......

How do boosted vehicles get the numbers up higher?

The Weather Man

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1boostedcivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wtf? turbo hondas make the most torque of any honda...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would hope so.............

fjt

More aggressive timing will give you more torque..
I got 266whp and 240lbs/ft on my non vtec Sohc setup..I have low CR 8.5:1 so i can give it a lot more timing which granted me increased torque.

raene

We use the tranny to make the torque... it doesn't show up on a dyno.

The Weather Man

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fjt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">More aggressive timing will give you more torque..
I got 266whp and 240lbs/ft on my non vtec Sohc setup..I have low CR 8.5:1 so i can give it a lot more timing which granted me increased torque.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Very decent........so more aggressive timing = more torque......hmm........

I'm trying to get as close to 300 wtq as possible. But trying to stay close to that in HP numbers - won't mind if it goes higher........

I'm using a Garrett t3/t4e 60 63ar - think it'll be good.......can't wait. This is my winter project.....I'm working right now, trying to make a start up calibration file for my hondata s300.........

I have my new clutch waiting for me - but trying to decipher if I want a lightened flywheel or not..........i think when its all said and done - i'll have the RPM cut at around 9,000 - or whenever I stop making power........maybe little less.......

Would a lightened flywheel help spool up times?

dnbruut

i hope you are looking for more low-end? i.s.o. torque?

TurboLude97

see my sig for my #'s... if you want more toqure you can always increase displacement.

fjt

I personaly think that is one of the advantages of having lower CR.. You have a broader space to tune and IMO you get more balanced numbers(hp vs. torque)...
High CR setups give more power granted but they limit your tune to stay in conservative areas in the timing otherwise it will knock...That usually gives you a high hp result but the torque stays anemic...
I have friends that have more torque than hp in their civics..Like for example, a lil bit more than a year ago a friend dynoed 252whp and 264lbs/ft on a sohc non vtec..Curious thing was that as well as in my setup the timing was aggressive enough to produce those numbers and not detonate..
I have another friend that just recently dynoed(2 weeks ago) dynoed 284whp and 270lbs/ft on an HX motor on AEM...Once again the timing was aggressive..

All these cars run low CR(between 8.5:1-8.7:1)

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Yes, buit again, in your SOHC example, the D-series motor has a much longer stroke that even some of the B-series

Timing and compression alone are not the factors. In this particular case, there is no replacement for displacement.

turbotime

aggressive timing can also = detonation right?

but low comp helps to counterbalance, but still, you can detonate right

vaporboy12

yes and most people will not tune with alot of ingiton timing. bad gas is killer if you got alot of timing.

igo4bmx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fjt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">More aggressive timing will give you more torque..
I got 266whp and 240lbs/ft on my non vtec Sohc setup..I have low CR 8.5:1 so i can give it a lot more timing which granted me increased torque.</TD></TR></TABLE>

and the d series stroke helps

300 whp 271 tq here

b18c1wes

try correctly matching your turbo to your application.. a t3/t4 a/r .63 ar on a say b18c1 may produce more power in the higher rpms it will be laggy and not as responsive as a smaller turbo.. i speak from experience i recently went from a t3/t4 57trim .63 a/r to a t3/t4 50 trim .48 ar while not a huge change i have a ton of lower rpm power with a sacrifice of higher rpm power but its awesome for most who have street cars and not drag cars i for one was looking for a balanced power delivery.. i dont have dyno numbers but the old *** in the seat dyno tells me what i need to know...

done

you make almost no since.. if you want to make 300whp and 300tq, go buy a SRT neon..

fjt

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbotime &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">aggressive timing can also = detonation right?

but low comp helps to counterbalance, but still, you can detonate right</TD></TR></TABLE>
yes.

john d

300wtq is fine by me

Turbo H22

H22's can produce more than 300wtq, as a few sig's on this thread have proven.

Unsivil_audio

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jordo@KAP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you make almost no since.. if you want to make 300whp and 300tq, go buy a SRT neon..</TD></TR></TABLE>

Lol. Werd.

Besides I thought FWD's had problems with anything over 200wtrq on the street. So I would think the lower torque # would work to your traction advantage.

igo4bmx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Unsivil_audio &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Lol. Werd.

Besides I thought FWD's had problems with anything over 200wtrq on the street. So I would think the lower torque # would work to your traction advantage.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i always thought it depended highly on the powerband and how it looks...
a very steep and quick tq increase would cause the tires to spin... compared to something less aggressive in the power

HiProfile

Trick for lots of WTQ: high lift, low duration, low overlap camshafts and a small ballbearing turbo. The problem is that honda's are designed for (and make most NA and FI WHP with) high duration camshafts. Most stock turbo cars don't get super-flowing heads or huge turbos, so they tend to make it up more with psi. Besides, hondas are light fwd cars AND whp (actaully a large area under the whp curve) is what makes the car fast, torque is what you feel. If a civic with a d-series @10psi w/traction bars has traction problems in 1st and 2nd, why would you want so much torque?

There's also the fact that WHP is derived from WTQ based on RPM, meaning WTQ equalling WHP represents a lower-RPM motor with a great midrange but no topend. One more wrench to toss in is that a higher-end d-series's specific output would be like 450-500wtq and 550-600whp on a supra.


Bottom line - Honda motors weren't designed like a conventional factory turbo motor.

dnbruut

it all depends on the entire powerband and matching it with the right gearbox. use shorter gears and your tyres will putt down more "torque". why arent you all talking about low-end?
every engine that makes 600whp @ 7000rpm will have the same torque number @ 7000rpm! theres only one way too make high torque numbers compared to hp numbers and that is: make as much power as possible as low in rpm as possible!

Still_Good

As people here have already stated, CR and therefore timing advance have alot to do with torque.

But as people have also said, rod length (and the whole issue of R/S ratio, really) are what determines torque.

As can be seen with Nissan's QR25 (SER Spec V motor, 2.5L I4) by utilizing a R/S ratio at the far other end of the spectrum you get stupid torque, with a motor that fractures crankshafts at &gt; 6500 rpm.

Hondas are designed to rev high, this is not neccesarily conductive to low end torque.

When you build an "LSVtec" motor, you're essentially creating a longrod GSR. One could take the concept a step farther and fabricate an even longer rod, and/or modified crankshaft and create a motor with the intent of making loads of torque.
Unfortunately, as can be seen in discussions on LSvtec this has consequences in how well the motor deals with high engine speeds.

Just my $.02

Zak

JDogg

r/s, rod lenth, etc dont matter

the reason hondas make more hp than tq is because of the rpm that tq and hp peaks at. the higher the rpm the hp peaks at the bigger difference in tq and hp.

do the math, tq and hp are equal at 5250 rpms. so for any engine that peaks above that rpm the tq will be less than the hp