Turbo GSR: Help me read these plugs
07-28-2011, 02:32 PM
#1
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Turbo GSR: Help me read these plugs
I tuned my friend's car here are the plugs after about 40 miles of driving on the current tune.
From what I have learned about reading plugs, these look good. I've got it about 15:1 AFR cruising and it changes into the high 11's when it hits boost. Car is a piston/rod/built head (stock B16 camshafts) 8.5:1 compression GSR motor currently on 7 lb boost running 93 octane pump on what i think is a 57 trim. running about 18 deg advance at 7 lbs for now.
thanks for any feedback/input
UPDATE on newest post 8/18
From what I have learned about reading plugs, these look good. I've got it about 15:1 AFR cruising and it changes into the high 11's when it hits boost. Car is a piston/rod/built head (stock B16 camshafts) 8.5:1 compression GSR motor currently on 7 lb boost running 93 octane pump on what i think is a 57 trim. running about 18 deg advance at 7 lbs for now.
thanks for any feedback/input
UPDATE on newest post 8/18
ok now I got a chance to do some more tuning on this car. we noticed the fuel pressure was doing some funny stuff (idle changed and the gauge showed pressure at 90 psi instead of 45) so we bought a rebuild kit for the AEM FPR. Now the fuel pressure is very consistent.
so I got the car tuned at 7 lb, 10 lb and then when I went to 13 lb it started cutting out. Spark plugs looked decent and the fuel was in the mid/high 11's at boost, so i figured the spark was getting blown out. I gapped the plugs down a little bit more (put them at .020" my buddy told me he had them at .025 before) and the car revved through flawlessly.
here are the low and high cam timing maps in boost
It looks like the injectors are getting close to being maxed out at 13 lbs of boost (thinking we are somewhere around 350-380 WHP on EVO 560's) and here is a pic of one of the plugs:
we wanted to put it on the dyno but figured it would be better to wait to be sure we got a decent street tune on the car to ensure any bugs are worked out before going to the dyno. I know I hate having to figure problems out on the dyno when we are paying for time.
so I got the car tuned at 7 lb, 10 lb and then when I went to 13 lb it started cutting out. Spark plugs looked decent and the fuel was in the mid/high 11's at boost, so i figured the spark was getting blown out. I gapped the plugs down a little bit more (put them at .020" my buddy told me he had them at .025 before) and the car revved through flawlessly.
here are the low and high cam timing maps in boost
It looks like the injectors are getting close to being maxed out at 13 lbs of boost (thinking we are somewhere around 350-380 WHP on EVO 560's) and here is a pic of one of the plugs:
we wanted to put it on the dyno but figured it would be better to wait to be sure we got a decent street tune on the car to ensure any bugs are worked out before going to the dyno. I know I hate having to figure problems out on the dyno when we are paying for time.
Last edited by mikesrex; 08-18-2011 at 07:38 AM.
07-28-2011, 02:40 PM
#3
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Turbo GSR: Help me read these plugs
Do a pull WOT and shut the car off at the top of it without letting the rpm drop and take pics. For the overall readings, plugs look pretty good man.
07-28-2011, 02:42 PM
#4
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Turbo GSR: Help me read these plugs
thanks for the advice and feedback
07-28-2011, 06:12 PM
#5
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Turbo GSR: Help me read these plugs
Hard to tell, but I think 18 degrees a 7psi is a bit conservative. Do what was said and look for the color change on the ground strap. Should be right around the bend. Closer to the center of the plug is retard ignition, closer to base is advanced.
07-28-2011, 06:26 PM
#6
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Turbo GSR: Help me read these plugs
yeah I don't see the timing mark on the strap at all yet. On my all motor cars I usually get the timing mark right on the bend on the electrode. I'm just not sure how much timing I really want to run on pump gas. I'm scared my friend is going to get some bad gas at the pump ya know. I'm thinking it would be better to wait til I get to the dyno to play with timing as the car is already decently quick on 7 lbs with the current tune.
Trending Topics
07-28-2011, 06:55 PM
#8
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Turbo GSR: Help me read these plugs
I think he paid like 500 for BNIB JE pistons and Eagle rods, so IMO it was a pretty good deal.
07-28-2011, 07:42 PM
#10
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Baton Rouge,Louisiana
Posts: 7,635
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
Re: Turbo GSR: Help me read these plugs
Those plugs haven't seen enough heat to make any accurate readings..
how old are those plugs? If they are only a few days old this motor hasn't gotten anywhere as hot as the plugs need to get to actually make readings.
You can judge heat range by now.. thats about it. On that note.. the heat range looks fine.. actually you could get away with 7's and be fine too.
post up some pics of a few WOT pulls.. i'll be happy to chime in then! Good luck.
how old are those plugs? If they are only a few days old this motor hasn't gotten anywhere as hot as the plugs need to get to actually make readings.
You can judge heat range by now.. thats about it. On that note.. the heat range looks fine.. actually you could get away with 7's and be fine too.
post up some pics of a few WOT pulls.. i'll be happy to chime in then! Good luck.
07-28-2011, 08:37 PM
#11
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Turbo GSR: Help me read these plugs
Those plugs haven't seen enough heat to make any accurate readings..
how old are those plugs? If they are only a few days old this motor hasn't gotten anywhere as hot as the plugs need to get to actually make readings.
You can judge heat range by now.. thats about it. On that note.. the heat range looks fine.. actually you could get away with 7's and be fine too.
post up some pics of a few WOT pulls.. i'll be happy to chime in then! Good luck.
how old are those plugs? If they are only a few days old this motor hasn't gotten anywhere as hot as the plugs need to get to actually make readings.
You can judge heat range by now.. thats about it. On that note.. the heat range looks fine.. actually you could get away with 7's and be fine too.
post up some pics of a few WOT pulls.. i'll be happy to chime in then! Good luck.
Sunday we are going to do some more tuning if the weather permits, so I will get more plug pics then.
07-29-2011, 03:05 AM
#13
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Baton Rouge,Louisiana
Posts: 7,635
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
Re: Turbo GSR: Help me read these plugs
you can tell by the threads.. you normally want a 3-5 thread color change..i can only see 2..fuel ring looks good..but the actual motor hasn't gotten hot enough during a drive to show your timing..
08-01-2011, 12:20 AM
#14
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Turbo GSR: Help me read these plugs
I added another degree of timing, and ramped in another degree after 6500, and also increased the boost to 10 lbs, running 3 degress less on the map at 10 than at 7.
plugs still look the same at both 7 and 10 lbs, car got considerably faster at 7 and a lot faster at 10. I just can't see myself spending anymore time on the street tuning this car. Either we go straight to the track for more tuning or put it on a dyno to see what the power does with adding timing.
I'm still running the #8's in the car, not sure if I want to switch to 7's. What advantages would I have switching to 7's? Any disadvantages?
thanks for all the feedback guys.
plugs still look the same at both 7 and 10 lbs, car got considerably faster at 7 and a lot faster at 10. I just can't see myself spending anymore time on the street tuning this car. Either we go straight to the track for more tuning or put it on a dyno to see what the power does with adding timing.
I'm still running the #8's in the car, not sure if I want to switch to 7's. What advantages would I have switching to 7's? Any disadvantages?
thanks for all the feedback guys.
08-01-2011, 03:42 AM
#15
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Baton Rouge,Louisiana
Posts: 7,635
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
Re: Turbo GSR: Help me read these plugs
I added another degree of timing, and ramped in another degree after 6500, and also increased the boost to 10 lbs, running 3 degress less on the map at 10 than at 7.
plugs still look the same at both 7 and 10 lbs, car got considerably faster at 7 and a lot faster at 10. I just can't see myself spending anymore time on the street tuning this car. Either we go straight to the track for more tuning or put it on a dyno to see what the power does with adding timing.
I'm still running the #8's in the car, not sure if I want to switch to 7's. What advantages would I have switching to 7's? Any disadvantages?
thanks for all the feedback guys.
plugs still look the same at both 7 and 10 lbs, car got considerably faster at 7 and a lot faster at 10. I just can't see myself spending anymore time on the street tuning this car. Either we go straight to the track for more tuning or put it on a dyno to see what the power does with adding timing.
I'm still running the #8's in the car, not sure if I want to switch to 7's. What advantages would I have switching to 7's? Any disadvantages?
thanks for all the feedback guys.
One gets rid of heat faster then the other..
if the nose of the plug is not hot enough, it will gradually accumulate deposits, known as fouling. This can happen if its "too cold"
When a spark plug gets too hot, the insulator may boil and bubble. On examination, it will be plain that it has been too hot. Also, the metal electrodes may melt away and disappear
08-01-2011, 05:51 AM
#16
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Turbo GSR: Help me read these plugs
The main difference between hot-running and cold-running plugs is the length of the insulator nose.
One gets rid of heat faster then the other..
if the nose of the plug is not hot enough, it will gradually accumulate deposits, known as fouling. This can happen if its "too cold"
When a spark plug gets too hot, the insulator may boil and bubble. On examination, it will be plain that it has been too hot. Also, the metal electrodes may melt away and disappear
One gets rid of heat faster then the other..
if the nose of the plug is not hot enough, it will gradually accumulate deposits, known as fouling. This can happen if its "too cold"
When a spark plug gets too hot, the insulator may boil and bubble. On examination, it will be plain that it has been too hot. Also, the metal electrodes may melt away and disappear
08-01-2011, 07:04 AM
#17
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Baton Rouge,Louisiana
Posts: 7,635
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
Re: Turbo GSR: Help me read these plugs
yes.. there would really be no need to change anything.. I'd try a set of 7's and see what it does...if you're on the dyno, just swapping plugs and making a pull to see what the AFR does / IGN and what kind of numbers it puts down.
Cars can run fine on colder plugs.. sometimes getting rid of heat faster, isn't always a good thing.. make a WOT pull on the plugs you have now and post up a pics
Need one of the threads, ground strap and fuel ring, and the porcelin
Cars can run fine on colder plugs.. sometimes getting rid of heat faster, isn't always a good thing.. make a WOT pull on the plugs you have now and post up a pics
Need one of the threads, ground strap and fuel ring, and the porcelin
08-01-2011, 07:44 AM
#18
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South, Texas
Posts: 12,903
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Turbo GSR: Help me read these plugs
What kind of power are you trying to make with the car? You can run 7's for a pretty good amount of power. I run them in my gsr 400whp
08-01-2011, 10:37 AM
#19
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Turbo GSR: Help me read these plugs
I'm thinking 300-350 WHP for daily driving
08-01-2011, 12:13 PM
#21
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Baton Rouge,Louisiana
Posts: 7,635
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
Re: Turbo GSR: Help me read these plugs
Plenty of people wrap b20 sleeves, h22 sleeves high, sleeves shouldn't be a limiting factor.
The only limiting factor should be rod bolts and how high its actually making power. GSR bottom ends are strong and should be treated as such.
sleeves should only be a limiting factor when the increase in stroke comes into play because then you worry about the side wall angle put on the pistons.
08-01-2011, 12:19 PM
#22
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Turbo GSR: Help me read these plugs
stock sleeves shouldn't limit his revs. Rev as high as you need too.
Plenty of people wrap b20 sleeves, h22 sleeves high, sleeves shouldn't be a limiting factor.
The only limiting factor should be rod bolts and how high its actually making power. GSR bottom ends are strong and should be treated as such.
sleeves should only be a limiting factor when the increase in stroke comes into play because then you worry about the side wall angle put on the pistons.
Plenty of people wrap b20 sleeves, h22 sleeves high, sleeves shouldn't be a limiting factor.
The only limiting factor should be rod bolts and how high its actually making power. GSR bottom ends are strong and should be treated as such.
sleeves should only be a limiting factor when the increase in stroke comes into play because then you worry about the side wall angle put on the pistons.
here is the timing map I currently run on this motor. boost is just below 10 lb (datalogger shows around 9.8ish) right now. boost cut is at 11.5
08-01-2011, 01:00 PM
#23
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Baton Rouge,Louisiana
Posts: 7,635
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
Re: Turbo GSR: Help me read these plugs
However rev the car as high as you need to.. There's no reason to limit that car.. at all. If i had to guess, power should start to fall off about 8400rpms..
08-01-2011, 04:09 PM
#25
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Mid atlantic
Posts: 3,629
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Turbo GSR: Help me read these plugs
Sounds like a pretty stout setup. Im interested to hear some more talk on reading your plugs, this is something that eludes me on how to properly do.