turbodailydan

ok so we started the mapping on my built b18c, just as we were finishing the turbo decided to die on us

now this is a t3/t4 57trim which came from AFI with their 'street series kit'. so it was brand new. covered 1000mile break in period.

after stripping it down you can see the shaft is discoloured where its got hot, which is pretty convincing its down to oil starvation..

the oil feed fitting that came with the kit seems very small to me, the hose is -3 size, and the hole on the oil feed is only 1.5mm, which is what i would expect to see on a roller bearing turbo, not a journal bearing..

so what i want to know is, what size oil feed lines to most people run and wether the oil fitting on the turbo is a restricted one ment for a roller bearing and not a journal type..?

i always run -4 size hose for oil feeds on turbo's, but obviously this came in a kit so i used it..

the turbo is completly shot now, the shaft is warped and the compressor wheel and turbine have fouled the housings so its new turbo time!!!

thanks

turbodailydan

turbodailydan

turbodailydan

turbodailydan

after doing a quick search it appears that journal bearings require a -4 line and possibly a restrictor, OR a -3 line and a restrictor..

so its looking like my -3 line AND running a restrictor is whats killed my turbo..

so the next question is going to be, why AFI have given me this in the kit... as im now ganna have to pay $600 on a new unit

Bailhatch

They gave it to you because that setup has worked on thousands of cars before yours. I would never tell someone to run a -4 feed line on a honda. it's pointless.

Is your shaft really messed up that bad? try polishing it and see what it measures. You could just throw new seals and bearings in it for $40 and get on with it.

turbodailydan

hmm then why did it not work on mine..??

the turbo is ****ed, the compressor wheel and turbine wheel are ****ed. they have worn down on the housings so they are scrap, and the shaft is warped ie. not straight. so its not as easy as just replacing the bearings..

like i say i did a search on here and quite a few knowledgable members have said, use a -3 or -4 oil line to the turbo with no restrictor on a journal bearing turbo, and use a restrictor on a ball bearing turbo.. i also know this from having various turbo's in the past, and i have NEVER run a restrictor on a journal bearing turbo.. only on ball bearing turbo's..

cjordan

iTrader: (1)

not sure if this will help or not but I had a journal bearing turbo that I did not run a restrictor on much like yourself and it failed me, I gave it to a friend he had it rebuilt and used a restrictor on it and it has been running for 4 years now... I run GT series garretts now and obviously am forced to use the restrictor...

street_ride14

I can not understand one thing .. how can you starve your turbo of oil if your oil pressure is on par ?, it really should not matter whether you use a -3an line or -4an line as long as you have proper oil-drain angle and oil-drain line diameter.

I think that your setup was not monitored for oil pressure and you ran unusually low pressures .. OR .. your oil coming into the turbo was too restrictive when the shaft speeds increased.

turbodailydan

the engine is a fresh build with genuine oem honda oil pump, so i have no doubts that the oil pressure is as it should be..

i have a -10 oil return which is a decent angle straight down to the sump so i know the return is good..

ive been searching old threads for the past 45mins and the conclusion is you should not run a restrictor on a journal bearing IF you are using -3 hose as your oil feed..

i need to get to the bottom of this as i obviously dont want to buy a brand new turbo for this to happen AGAIN

turbodailydan

oh and yes hose size DOES effect the pressure the turbo recieve's, hence why a restrictor restricts the pressure to the turbo.. running a smaller hose will have the same effect..

which is why i cant figure out why i am running a -3 oil feed hose (which is pretty small) AND running an oil restrictor ontop of that??

street_ride14

there you go, you should not have run the restrictor to begin with. Like you said, journal bearing turbos must be fed with -3an line w/ no restrictor.

turbodailydan

LOL thats what i thought from the start..

BUT i thought ''these boys at AFI must know their stuff, surely they wouldnt give me a resrictor if i didnt need it...''

hmm..

street_ride14

worth a try .. Call AFI and see if you can send damaged turbo back for replacement New turbo, it'll be tough to convince them that the restrictor caused the damage since they'll probably tell you "your car was the first."

SovXietday

I run a 3AN line with a .060 ATP turbo restrictor on that same turbo. No issues at all here. In fact, when I ran it with just the 3AN line, I blew the seals in about 3 weeks.

Sounds to me like you have other problems or that the restrictor got clogged.

turbodailydan

ive emailed them but had no reply as of yet..

and yeah if i do get a reply it will probably be '' weve sold x amount and had no problems..''

thing is im in the u.k so its not so quick for me to ship the turbo back to them etc etc

turbodailydan

are you for real?? i cant see how you would blow the seals in 3 weeks just by running a -3 line and no restrictor.. was it an xspower turbo by any chance??

how many people run a -4 oil feed with no restrictor?

narfdanarf

My car had a -3 line with .065 restrictor from ATP and has 26,000 miles on it. Garrett journal bearing 57 trim.

ATP sells two different restrictors the .065 for journal bearing/large ball bearing turbos and the .035 for small ball bearing turbos.

non-VTEC

i have a -3 line with a .065 restrictor on my t3/t04b 57-trim for the past 4 or 5 years. never had any turbo failure related problems you speak of.

the journal bearing turbo's only require about 40-60psi of oil pressure max. my oil pump/engine setup produces 80-95psi of oil pressure so a restrictor was needed.

you should check to make sure you don't have any restrictions in the feed line or some debris that went thru the line etc...or it was just a plain and simple defective products out of the box....?

turbodailydan

yeah thats all i can think of, the turbo was faulty from the start, or something got lodged in the feed and restricted the flow..

im going to run it without the restrictor this time but keep the -3 oil feed, that should be ok i would have thought..

srmofo

in all honesty, you should take the time to measure the oil pressure before it goes into the turbo.....measure it without a restrictor, then with a restrictor. Thats the only way to know what is going on. Unless you want to throw another $600 down the drain, its up to you. If you find the pressure to be low, then you can just drill your current restrictor out until you get the right pressure

My money is on a piece of crap clogging the restrictor. Did you put rtv on anything? or use thread tape?

Bailhatch

good advice, since you had a problem.

I have put together a ton of journal bearing setups with a -3 and a .060 or .050" restrictor with no problems.

AndyFloyd

Honda engines put out a TON of oil pressure because of the vtec system. So basically here is what you do....keep the -3 feed line and use NO restrictor. Youll be good as gold. Sorry man.

turbodailydan

ive spent some time searching old posts regarding restrictors and what size oil feed to use and there are sooooooo many different opinions its almost impossible to know who's talking BS and who isnt..

from what ive read, there has been problems with people running -3 oil feeds with a restrictor, people having the same problem ive had and it restricting the oil feed too much and killing the bearing due to oil starvation..

then you get people like yourselfs saying you had no problems running with a -3 line and restrictor..

quite a few people run -4 with no restrictors and have no problems..

the way i see it is this, if you have a decent sized oil return, and a good angle on it, the feed size shouldnt matter.

also, the worst case scenario of running a bigger oil feed with no restrictor is you blowing the seals on the turbo.. NOW ID RATHER BLOW THE SEALS, THAN KILL THE BEARING AND IN TURN KILL THE TURBO LIKE I HAVE DONE THIS TIME..

the logical thing to do is run a -4 line with no restrcitor and see how i get on... if it is seing too much oil pressure like this, i will then try the -3 line with no restrictor..

Ls_dx

iTrader: (5)

Sorry you had a problem. Contact AFI and see what they say..