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Turbo build 97 teg circuit racing

Old 12-24-2013, 01:39 AM
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Default Turbo build 97 teg circuit racing

I wanted to get peoples comments and suggestions on my build, I will be using this car strictly for the track.

Its a 1997 acura integra gsr:
- fully gutted interior including dash guts and sound dampening removed
- b18c1 with 120k stock bottom end
- AEM stand alone computer
- skunk2 intake manifold and throttle body
- rc 550 injectors
- aem fuel rail and regulator
- pcv vented on block and valve cover with breather and catch can
- 9lbs flywheel with excedy stage 3 clutch
- innovative aluminum motor mounts
- ram horn header
- turbonetics .63 t3/t4 turbo
- oil cooler with -8an fitting and hoses
- tial BOV and wastegate
- 3 inch exhaust with magnaflow muffler
- wildwood big brake kit
- stainless steel lines
- adjustable struts front and rear
- front and rear strut braces
- front and rear sway barsf
- soon to buy new 17 inch rims (15 inch rims don't fit) and r888 toyo tires
- soon to buy itr lsd
- soon to make a lower bumper splitter and canard splitter taking off the lower splitter didn't fit made for a 98-01

Old 12-24-2013, 04:58 AM
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Default Re: Turbo build 97 teg circuit racing

is that a cheapo turbo manifold?
Old 12-24-2013, 06:36 AM
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Default Re: Turbo build 97 teg circuit racing

Yea I didn't want to get anything good until I see how everything performed, but its better than a log
Old 12-24-2013, 07:46 AM
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Default Re: Turbo build 97 teg circuit racing

Originally Posted by prahaian
Yea I didn't want to get anything good until I see how everything performed, but its better than a log
Not as much as you think. The one thing about Time Attack and circuit racing is consistency. (Something we all work at continually, of course, but this is with all aspects of this kind of racing.. This includes driver behavior, quality equipment, and tyres, tyres, tyres).

For this, honestly, the "Ramhorn" is not the good choice here, even if it was made with quality materials. Using a tubular log of good material helps with quick exhaust velocity to move that turbine wheel, and quality material to last throughout the event.

It does NO GOOD to you if in your quest to "see how it works" you get an exhaust leak due to a crack in the manifold, or even at the head, and as a result not only destroy the manifold, but could start a fire somewhere else. These underhood and combustion chamber temperatures create a "ticking time bomb" environment if these areas aren't addressed on the jump.

I lost my second track car by doing on the cheap the first time using a manifold like that, and lost the whole car because I wasn't aware that my equipment was failing as I was driving. So, its best to get the RIGHT manifold the first time. it doesn't mean you have break the bank, but it does mean you need to put a bit more into the equipment that can allow to do what you want to enjoy; Driving.

Originally Posted by prahaian
I wanted to get peoples comments and suggestions on my build, I will be using this car strictly for the track.

My comments are in blue only where needed

Its a 1997 acura integra gsr:
- fully gutted interior including dash guts and sound dampening removed
- b18c1 with 120k stock bottom end
- AEM stand alone computer
- skunk2 intake manifold and throttle body
- rc 550 injectors
- aem fuel rail and regulator
- pcv vented on block and valve cover with breather and catch can
- 9lbs flywheel with excedy stage 3 clutch
- innovative aluminum motor mounts
- ram horn header I've already addressed this
- turbonetics .63 t3/t4 turbo Any idea what size you're using here? with that "Ramhorn" manifold and an unknown size turbocharger, you may be hurting yourself for this purpose. But if this is all for now, so be it.
- oil cooler with -8an fitting and hoses Using -8AN is a bit on the small side for a proper oil cooler. -8AN sized lines on a turbo Honda or Mitsubishi actually puts a LOT of stress on the oil pump and will cause its early demise with a 120K pump. I recommend going to -10AN for your oil flow lines and make sure that the cooler itself is at least a 19 row with the oil inlet/outlets either at the top or the side of the oil cooler itself.

Also, don't make the same mistake I did by placing the oil cooler above the oil filter of the engine block. Just like with a turbocharger return line, it slopes the line upward, causing stress on the stock pump, and starving both the cooler and the engine of oil. Unless you're running a separate electric oil sump, the cooler need to sit at engine block level or lower.


- tial BOV and wastegate
- 3 inch exhaust with magnaflow muffler

- wildwood big brake kit -What are you doing for pads? Brake fluid? Rear caliper equipment? Its best to keep a stock proportioning valve if using stock rear Integra calipers and a Willwood kit

- stainless steel lines ok.. where?

- adjustable struts front and rear

- front and rear strut braces
- front and rear sway barsf
- soon to buy new 17 inch rims (15 inch rims don't fit) and r888 toyo tires

- soon to buy itr lsd

If you're circuit racing, its best to use something outside of the OEM LSD which was not made really for circuit racing, especially if this is strictly a circuit car. You of course have your choices of LSDs, but the OEM won't cut it for the circuit...

Here's a great link to some information of various type of LSDs, and which ones would better meet your needs. Most hondas had a Torsen differential that only works when the wheels are slightly turned, otherwise it acts as an open differential. With a turbocharged application, a Helical is perferrable over a Torsen (Like a Wavetrac or Quaife), but a Mechanical differential is optimal (Like a Cusco 1.5way or Kaaz 1.5way)

Limited Slip Differentials
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited-slip_differential



- soon to make a lower bumper splitter and canard splitter taking off the lower splitter didn't fit made for a 98-01

Making one is just fine, but if you want something a bit more functional and still flexible enough for that, check with Special Projects SMS

http://www.specialprojectsms.com/
Old 12-24-2013, 10:13 AM
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Default Re: Turbo build 97 teg circuit racing

Theshodan,

any recommendations on who makes a good exhaust manifold? From consensus I guess I will be getting a better exhaust manifold

as far as the turbo its a Turbonetics TO4E Turbo 50 Trim F1-57 A/R .63

The oil cooler will sit near the front bumper so it will be low, Im getting a new oil pump installed

On the brakes it 12.19 rotor cross drilled and slotted front and rear front is 2 piston rear is 1 hawk blue pads front and rear and I deleted the abs and I have a 40/40 proportioning valve and all new lines that make that system work, brake fluid im doing ate blue

the brake lines are stainless steel front and rear

LSD I was looking into the kaaz is it ok to get them used?

I looked at the specialprojects sms one but I can make one similar to that for a fraction of the cost at my shop.

Thanks for the advice very much appreciate happy holidays
Old 12-24-2013, 08:19 PM
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Default Re: Turbo build 97 teg circuit racing

that manifold WILL crack. It's just a matter of when, especially when dealing with the violent environment on a track, vibrations will kill it quickly. don't be amazed if your wastegate falls off entirely and the turbo does the same

look for a quality ramhorn or miniram, you could even find a decent quality one used in the marketplace. you'll want a unit made from sch.10 weld els unless you can find a true tubular manifold and fabricate a proper turbo brace to keep the manifold in one piece.

as far as brands... full race, afi, go-autoworks, rld, blue ridge motorsports, rc autoworks, neukin, lovefab, plus many others all make quality manifolds and stand behind their product and warranty. however cost does vary between companies depending on the runner diameter, flange options, divided/undivided, and which company you choose (larger shops have more overhead, hence higher prices)


the kaaz LSD is a clutch type, not that great for circuit racing as its lockup is fairly violent. not to mention the special oil you have to run, the break in procedure etc. they are great on rwd drift cars but on a fwd car for circuit racing you need a helical torque biasing diff, like the OEM unit, quaife, wavetrac, etc. no plates to replace and change based on how you want the unit to lock up... no special fluids, break in, etc. the helical diff is an install and forget kinda deal and you'd be hard pressed to damage or break one.
Old 12-24-2013, 08:24 PM
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Default Re: Turbo build 97 teg circuit racing

also I would shy away from a 17" wheel. that's a big heavy wheel and tires are very expensive, especially the R888 in 17" sizes. I know if you look around you can find a 16" wheel that will clear your front brake kit

also the hawk blues won't standup to a lot of repeated high heat braking events. especially given your cars hp and weight. start looking around for better pads that fit your caliper (ferodo, performance friction, stoptech, even wilwood and others provide great pad compounds that are more suited for your application. I just can't remember all of the companies at the moment.
Old 12-25-2013, 04:28 AM
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Default Re: Turbo build 97 teg circuit racing

yea I was looking and some people are really proud of their manifolds, I guess ill just have to do a little more research on pros and cons of each.

That's the hard thing with forums is one guy says one thing and the other says another. The only thing about 16s on the triple 8's is that the side wall is kinda high.

I ran hawk blues on my last event and they seem to do good but I don't know how long they last. What kind of composite would you recommend??
Old 12-25-2013, 10:20 AM
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Default Re: Turbo build 97 teg circuit racing

I don't see a cage in the car? I may be mistaken. If not please consider getting some sort of roll protection, a quality seat and harnesses. Safety First!

Brake suggestions ( just throwin ideas out here)
-Carbotech XP-8,10 or 12's depending on your cars weight.Excellent pads. They will handle anything you can throw at them.
-You could "downgrade" to the classic Mini Cooper / ITR combo. You will lose about 1" of rotor diameter so the ladies panties won't fly off quite as fast but...
-Super cheap rotors
-Everyone makes pads for ITR calipers
-You can run 15x8 wheels with 235/50r15 Toyo R888's which are 30$ cheaper per tire and you'll lose a good amount of wheel / tire weight.
-You won't loose any stopping power
-Use the money from selling the willwood stuff to pay for above items. (Willwood is good stuff, not trying to get you to get rid of it)

Diffs
-An ITR diff will be a solid upgrade from stock. I tracked my B16 eg with an open diff for two years before upgrading. It is a great improvement over no LSD, however there are better diffs out there if youre willing to spend the money. I purchased my diff from a friend who upgraded his ITR to a quaife unit. It's amazing how much of an improvement it is even over the ITR diff.
-Open diff(stock)= meh. ITR diff = good. Quaife or similar unit = AMAZING
Old 12-25-2013, 10:43 AM
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Default Re: Turbo build 97 teg circuit racing

I have a cage 5 point harness and some decent seats nothing fancy on the seats.

The car weights 2427 lbs with driver

I have track day at the end of January so Im trying to get all my pieces together built and tuned by then
Old 12-25-2013, 11:13 AM
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Default Re: Turbo build 97 teg circuit racing

I'm going to make a few corrections In Green if you don't mind, as I'm taking a "break" from all the family gatherings. This is from , of course an avid Time Attacker for the last 10 years.

Originally Posted by wantboost
that manifold WILL crack. It's just a matter of when, especially when dealing with the violent environment on a track, vibrations will kill it quickly. don't be amazed if your wastegate falls off entirely and the turbo does the same


look for a quality ramhorn or miniram, you could even find a decent quality one used in the marketplace. you'll want a unit made from sch.10 weld els unless you can find a true tubular manifold and fabricate a proper turbo brace to keep the manifold in one piece.

as far as brands... full race, afi, go-autoworks, rld, blue ridge motorsports, rc autoworks, neukin, lovefab, plus many others all make quality manifolds and stand behind their product and warranty. however cost does vary between companies depending on the runner diameter, flange options, divided/undivided, and which company you choose (larger shops have more overhead, hence higher prices)


This is very true. I've seen many a driver go home with head hung in shame from a poorly build exhaust manifold for their economically built circuit race car. It not only will cause possible damge to your car, but with a failed gate coming off, could destroy someone else's car as well even if not in the same session. OP, do yourself a favor, and let's look into manifolds for this purpose.


the kaaz LSD is a clutch type, not that great for circuit racing as its lockup is fairly violent.

No disrespect, but This is where you're completely off on how the Kaaz and Cusco work for the circuit. They were specifically designed for circuit racing, and there is no violent reactions except in slow turns on the street when the oil isn't up to temperature. That's for about 2-3 minutes. After that, the engagement is completely flawless and when properly selected, (I suggest the 1.5-way over the 1-way), a lot of inherent understeer is eliminated, full grip is utilized on sharper turns, and with right rear sway bar used, a natural oversteer will occur. 100% lock is NOT THE SAME AS A WELDED "SPOOL" that is used in drag racing. Please look at that link , but the purpose of the 1.5-way to assist with transmision engagement on deceleration as well as acceleration (unlike the 1-way). This is why they were designed, developed an still used fanatically in Time Attack and HPDE events.


not to mention the special oil you have to run, the break in procedure etc.

Once again, That's only during the first part of the installation. The special Grade Level 5 oils are abundant in many forms (it no longer has to be from the specific company) and contrary to popular belief, does not have to be changed every oil change at all. In fact, in some cases, I've been able to filter any contaminants out of the oil and REUSE it, after over 2 seasons of use. The main part of the special oils really are the frictioin additives that have to be used for the clutch plates, but that's very easily overcome.


they are great on rwd drift cars but on a fwd car for circuit racing you need a helical torque biasing diff, like the OEM unit, quaife, wavetrac, etc. no plates to replace and change based on how you want the unit to lock up... no special fluids, break in, etc.

Again, incorrect. Helical and Clutch differentials can both be used, but OEM is not the best choice at all. Even in Group N racing from over 15 years ago, Clutch type LSDs are still used. read that article again.


the helical diff is an install and forget kinda deal and you'd be hard pressed to damage or break one.

The same can be said for the clutch LSD, however the Helical is more used inline for that are going for a street/ circuit application. For those serious into racing, clutch types are used more often than not. As a user of clutch LSDs for ALL of the cars (save my TSX), its not a bad way to go, but the misconceptions like the ones stated have to be eliminated.
Old 12-25-2013, 11:23 AM
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Default Re: Turbo build 97 teg circuit racing

Responses are in Green

Originally Posted by prahaian
yea I was looking and some people are really proud of their manifolds, I guess ill just have to do a little more research on pros and cons of each.

Its ok. No one said that it was an easy choice, but going for the most popular "style" of manifold doesn't mean its the right choice. Ironically, the good manifolds used for circuit racing are not as expensive as you think. Stick to the simple styles from Spoolin' Performance, Go-Autoworks, and JDL Auto Design, for the best cost/design cues

That's the hard thing with forums is one guy says one thing and the other says another. The only thing about 16s on the triple 8's is that the side wall is kinda high.

Correct. This also can keep tyre width choices lower. I'd stay with the 17" as your original choices. There's nothing wrong with a 17" for time attack on a DC2, in fact, that's actually rather common over the 15" common ones that are used on Civics and Del Sols.. If you have the right brake upgrade, (which I believe you have ) on a 12.2" or 12.9" rotor, you'll be seriously good braking, but I would suggest against the 40/40 proportioning valve if you're using stock OEM rear calipers. That causes the car to "dog leg" a lot, and your brake bias becomes rather screwed.. Go back to the standard proportioning unless changing rear calipers to a willwood setup.

I ran hawk blues on my last event and they seem to do good but I don't know how long they last. What kind of composite would you recommend??

Blues won't cut it. I'd look to Colbalt Friction XT2 or Carbotech on pads when doing this. The HP+ is squeaky but works for a bit more longevity if you decide to stay with Hawk.
Old 12-25-2013, 11:49 AM
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Default Re: Turbo build 97 teg circuit racing

I think I have made a decision to go with a mini ram made by spoolin or go-autoworks depending on who I can get the soonest.

Yea I am sticking with 17s even if the tires are a bit more expensive. I do have a 40/40 valve since I deleted the abs and I do have the willwood brakes.

Thanks for the advice I should have all the fittings and misc stuff this week so I can start to assemble everything

Happy holiday
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