AL ASPIRATED

what would you guys think could produce the greatest amount of power? This is for a DRAG Strip car. Its going to be a FULLY Built motor. What do you guys think would produce the most power???????????

What are pros and cons of each?

Thanks for your thoughts

boosted_dc2

impossible to determine, to many variables.

Landon

Irishweird00

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted_dc2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">impossible to determine, to many variables.

Landon</TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed... There wouldn't be to much of a difference since they are the simliar displacement.... and displacement doesn't make a huge difference in turbo applications as it does with all motor apps.

2.0L ls and b20 are the same displacement... same cranks... same internals.. pretty much the same block when you get them sleeved...

showtymers619

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AL ASPIRATED &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what would you guys think could produce the greatest amount of power? This is for a DRAG Strip car. Its going to be a FULLY Built motor. What do you guys think would produce the most power???????????

What are pros and cons of each?

Thanks for your thoughts </TD></TR></TABLE>

i got your answer
speaking of pros and cons
its been proven gsr head will never flow as great as a b16/itr (highend) thats stock or fully built its been proven

the block doesnt matter from there if money doesnt matter
except the GSR block would have oil squirters to start with

boosted92

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ShowTymers619 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i got your answer
speaking of pros and cons
its been proven gsr head will never flow as great as a b16/itr (highend) thats stock or fully built its been proven
</TD></TR></TABLE>

What the hell are you talking about?



A 4 CFM difference, fully ported. That means nothing, i've seen port-to-port variances greater than that on production heads.

Irishweird00

what the hell are both of you talking about? there was no mention of what head he was going to use... or anything else for that matter... I vote, lock this thread so no arguments break out... thank you

boosted_dc2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Irishweird00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what the hell are both of you talking about? there was no mention of what head he was going to use... or anything else for that matter... I vote, lock this thread so no arguments break out... thank you </TD></TR></TABLE>

buwahahaha!!!! owned.

Landon

showtymers619

well i was assuming when he said ls vtec b20 vtec that would be a b16 head compared to a 2 liter (gsr)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted92 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What the hell are you talking about?



A 4 CFM difference, fully ported. That means nothing, i've seen port-to-port variances greater than that on production heads.</TD></TR></TABLE>

and thats exactly what i said b16 out performce the gsr head... built or not...

wtf you talking about...unless you forgot its full drag and every little counts

pissedoffsol

out of those 3, the gsr block is better due to its oil squiters and girdle.

the ls/b20 crank can easily be put in the gsr block with ls length rods as well to make the extra displacement

boosted92

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ShowTymers619 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> and thats exactly what i said b16 out performce the gsr head... built or not...

wtf you talking about...unless you forgot its full drag and every little counts</TD></TR></TABLE>

The B16 head there flows an average of 108.8 CFM. The GSR head flows an average of 106.6 CFM. 2.2 CFM average means jack **** on a turbo car. If he was building a naturally aspirated car where he was following STRICT class rules and where every 2 or 3 horsepower makes a difference, then yeah a B16 head might be worthwhile. Otherwise if he is serious about building a real drag car, I think he's going to consult some real engine builders, not just some average joe posting on Honda-Tech.

Also, considering this guy is only 19 I don't think he's going to have the funding required to produce a very fast FWD race car, or a fast race car period. Moot point, this doesn't need to turn into a flame war.

Irishweird00

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted92 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

this doesn't need to turn into a flame war.</TD></TR></TABLE>

To late

1316130057

Honestly, I think we need some more clarity on what the original person meant as "power". Do you mean hp or Torque?

Assuming that all combos used the same head with only the bottom end's being different, then the LS/B20 2.0 will make the most torque due to their R/S and comparatively smaller piston surface. If you're looking at HP the GSR's shorter R/S and inherently larger piston surface (to make the 2000cc's) will make considerably more hp and rev not just higher, but sooner and easier. As a result though, it'll also make LESS torque and suck more gas.

Of course none of this factors in the difference in combustion chamber or valves, cams, different boost levels etc to make each combo its most efficient for its design, but lets assume that all else were equal...

showtymers619

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted92 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The B16 head there flows an average of 108.8 CFM. The GSR head flows an average of 106.6 CFM. 2.2 CFM average means jack **** on a turbo car. If he was building a naturally aspirated car where he was following STRICT class rules and where every 2 or 3 horsepower makes a difference, then yeah a B16 head might be worthwhile. Otherwise if he is serious about building a real drag car, I think he's going to consult some real engine builders, not just some average joe posting on Honda-Tech.

Also, considering this guy is only 19 I don't think he's going to have the funding required to produce a very fast FWD race car, or a fast race car period. Moot point, this doesn't need to turn into a flame war.</TD></TR></TABLE>

man your really good at being an *** arent you

now to clearify things if you think CFM doesnt matter to a turbo car your the average joe and a pretty big idiot and uneducated.

ive built many of my own cars,exept for honing and sleeving and manufacturing my own parts which i didnt do, i concidered them fairly quick them fairly which they were

should i list them

89 crx b16 all motor 12.9 at 108mph at weighing at 2366 with me in it
put together by me with the help of my friends prototype parts by Enemy race and skunk2 products

95 delsol full interior w/ h23vtec all motor 13.2 at 101 mph street tires

00 civic ex full interior greddy turbo kit on afc hack 13.7 @ 10 psi 103mph street tires

4dr gsr full interior greddy turbo kit 13.9 @ 6.5 psi 101mph street tires

all cars sold

now working with a 02 SI keeping stock actually

in the works CRV going b20vtec maybe turbo air to water set up

94 del sol si b16/gsr head maybe turbo if the CRV doesnt need it

i had over 10 swap under my belt not including my own cars

Im ASE certified in electrical , ford and GM tranny tech

ive built a h23vtec with the 92-95 prelude body that went 12's all motor
ive dont h22 in a EK and eg both ref bar'ed

i dont think im an average joe

and most of those suspension swap **** thats backyard boogie ****...
and those direct swap Bseries to eg's and all same thign all cake
next time dont open your mouth when you dont even know me


ps i did my all motor 12 crx when i was 16...

yes it doesnt comapre to the 10 seconds peeps daily driven but this was aroudn 6 years ago

boosted92

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ShowTymers619 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

man your really good at being an *** arent you

now to clearify things if you think CFM doesnt matter to a turbo car your the average joe and a pretty big idiot and uneducated.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ugh, re-read what I said.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted92 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The B16 head there flows an average of 108.8 CFM. The GSR head flows an average of 106.6 CFM. 2.2 CFM average means jack **** on a turbo car.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm standing by my original statement, 2.2 CFM's average flow means jack **** on a turbo motor, period. I've built more than my fair share of fast cars, much more than a few 13 second hondas. Once again, I don't feel like getting into a massive flame war, but you're the one who came out here and called me an idiot. If you think 2.2 CFM's average flow on a force fed turbo motor is going to make any kind of a difference there really isn't anything to say except that you're wrong.

m R g S r

I don't get what the big deal is, let him use b16 heads all he wants, thinking that 2.2cfm will actually make a difference.

boosted_dc2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ShowTymers619 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

man your really good at being an *** arent you

now to clearify things if you think CFM doesnt matter to a turbo car your the average joe and a pretty big idiot and uneducated.

ive built many of my own cars,exept for honing and sleeving and manufacturing my own parts which i didnt do, i concidered them fairly quick them fairly which they were

should i list them

89 crx b16 all motor 12.9 at 108mph at weighing at 2366 with me in it
put together by me with the help of my friends prototype parts by Enemy race and skunk2 products

95 delsol full interior w/ h23vtec all motor 13.2 at 101 mph street tires

00 civic ex full interior greddy turbo kit on afc hack 13.7 @ 10 psi 103mph street tires

4dr gsr full interior greddy turbo kit 13.9 @ 6.5 psi 101mph street tires

all cars sold

now working with a 02 SI keeping stock actually

in the works CRV going b20vtec maybe turbo air to water set up

94 del sol si b16/gsr head maybe turbo if the CRV doesnt need it

i had over 10 swap under my belt not including my own cars

Im ASE certified in electrical , ford and GM tranny tech

ive built a h23vtec with the 92-95 prelude body that went 12's all motor
ive dont h22 in a EK and eg both ref bar'ed

i dont think im an average joe

and most of those suspension swap **** thats backyard boogie ****...
and those direct swap Bseries to eg's and all same thign all cake
next time dont open your mouth when you dont even know me


ps i did my all motor 12 crx when i was 16...

yes it doesnt comapre to the 10 seconds peeps daily driven but this was aroudn 6 years ago</TD></TR></TABLE>

what does all this jiber-jaber have to do with the question??? who cares how many swaps youve done, and who cares what your certified in?? the fact remains that all the combos are endless, and can all be made comparable. if it came down to it and money wasnt an option any of those combos would be the fastest, think about it. oh yea and oil squirters, guess what when you build an engine with forged internals, usually they arent even used, idiot as you put it.

Landon

jeremy.

haha

FwdCivicHatch

If your building an all-out drag race motor, some people don't even use the oil squirters, since your only going to be running in short spurts. But anyway, why not bore out the b20 motor.

Irishweird00

Wow I've never seen a more useless thread in my life... but on the other hand.. It's a good example of what not to post!!!

the fact of the matter is... there NEVER WAS A MENION OF A HEAD.... he never stated anything other than... what would be faster? a turbo 2.0L or a turbo 2.0L or another turbo 2.0L.....

There are to many ****** variables when looking at turbo car... what the setup? what size turbo blah blah blah blah... 2.2 cfm won't mean jack **** on a turbo car... unless your going ***** to the wall drag cars... and then it doesn't even matter... CUZ YOU WONT BE USEING THE STOCK PORTS, VALVES, CHAMBERS ANYWAY!!!!!

This thread falls into the same category as, "how fast will my car go if i put these cams in it?"

CheezeFrog

Best thread EVAR!!!

Huee

As per the motor build, i guess it depends on budget and availability. Once b series blocks are fully built, they are very similar. An ls short block would be the cheapest and most easy to find. With a Gsr, you would benefit from not having to run an external oil line for the vtec conversion along with the girdle being built in. Oil squirters are not that beneficial, because most builders pinch them or plug it because forged pistons dont require the oil to cool it.

If $ is not an issue, i would just take a GSR block and sleeve it to 84.5 and then put an ls crank and rods in. Then you get over 2000cc displacement with internal vtec system.

Correct me if im wrong, but a full build on ls and b20 would be the same, except for the 1 pc sleeve(b20) vs 4 individuals(b18b) and the fact that B20 doesnt have the breather box on the back of the block.

AL ASPIRATED

i didnt make this thread for peoiple to talk hella ****.

I was trying to find out a good block that i can use to build. 2.0L for the B18s are something that i am going to do. i am trying to just ask which would be a better motor to build.

hella people on this thread thinks they know everything, so they think they can be asses to everyone. boards are for people to help eachother, not to start **** which eachother.

if i my question was too broad, you can just ask me to rephrase it.

**** just LOCK this thread cause poeple start too much ****