Tunning your car for 20psi for track and running 10psi for street?
11-06-2003, 08:53 AM
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Tunning your car for 20psi for track and running 10psi for street?
Okay for example, you got the built motor with a custom turbo kit etc.. Say you got a Electronic boost controller and it is set at 25psi when you dyno it. Now since you dont want to run 25psi on the street, say you lower it down to 12psi. How is it going to effect the setting at 12psi ? meaning as is it going to run richer or leaner? or is there more outcome then running rich or lean. And also most boost controller I see have a two setting. Like Greddy profec B, It has low and high setting? Is it for low boost and the other one is for high boost? Also do anyone know if HKS boost controller have the same low and high setting like the profec B. 
11-06-2003, 09:01 AM
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Re: (David555)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by David555 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Your going to have to have 2 different fuel maps. One for your high settings and one for low... If you tune your car to 25 psi and run 12 psi you will be wayyy rich... It sucks.</TD></TR></TABLE>
oh okay so i need two different fuel maps. Okay say I use honda s200b, does the s200b comes wtih two different fuel maps setting ?
oh okay so i need two different fuel maps. Okay say I use honda s200b, does the s200b comes wtih two different fuel maps setting ?
11-06-2003, 09:24 AM
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Re: (SiBirdie)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SiBirdie »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
oh okay so i need two different fuel maps. Okay say I use honda s200b, does the s200b comes wtih two different fuel maps setting ?</TD></TR></TABLE>
You would need to burn two chips and and jsut switch them out. Or, if you have the rom editor and romulator, just load the chip you want to the ECU.
oh okay so i need two different fuel maps. Okay say I use honda s200b, does the s200b comes wtih two different fuel maps setting ?</TD></TR></TABLE>
You would need to burn two chips and and jsut switch them out. Or, if you have the rom editor and romulator, just load the chip you want to the ECU.
11-06-2003, 09:34 AM
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Re: (ladysman)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ladysman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You would need to burn two chips and and jsut switch them out. Or, if you have the rom editor and romulator, just load the chip you want to the ECU.</TD></TR></TABLE>
waaaait a minute. so you cant alternate between high and low boost on the fly with Hondata? you have to stop your car and swap out a chip just to go from 10psi to 20psi?
You would need to burn two chips and and jsut switch them out. Or, if you have the rom editor and romulator, just load the chip you want to the ECU.</TD></TR></TABLE>
waaaait a minute. so you cant alternate between high and low boost on the fly with Hondata? you have to stop your car and swap out a chip just to go from 10psi to 20psi?
11-06-2003, 09:51 AM
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Re: (B00stedCoupe)
If the fuel map is completely tuned it should be tuned for proper operation at 10 and 20psi, those are two totally different areas of the fuel map. If you think the ecu sprays the same fuel at 10psi as it does at 20psi you need to learn what a map sensor is and how it works. The only reason maps should need to be changed is if different fuels are used or it was not completely tuned in the first place.
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11-06-2003, 09:58 AM
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Re: (omahaturbocivic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by omahaturbocivic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If the fuel map is completely tuned it should be tuned for proper operation at 10 and 20psi, those are two totally different areas of the fuel map. If you think the ecu sprays the same fuel at 10psi as it does at 20psi you need to learn what a map sensor is and how it works. The only reason maps should need to be changed is if different fuels are used or it was not completely tuned in the first place.</TD></TR></TABLE>
more info's ? plz keep the comments going.
more info's ? plz keep the comments going.
11-06-2003, 10:06 AM
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Re: (omahaturbocivic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by omahaturbocivic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If the fuel map is completely tuned it should be tuned for proper operation at 10 and 20psi, those are two totally different areas of the fuel map. If you think the ecu sprays the same fuel at 10psi as it does at 20psi you need to learn what a map sensor is and how it works. The only reason maps should need to be changed is if different fuels are used or it was not completely tuned in the first place.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I dont know what you just said.. first you said "If the fuel map is completely tuned it should be tuned for proper operation at 10 and 20psi, " and then you said "If you think the ecu sprays the same fuel at 10psi as it does at 20psi you need to learn what a map sensor is and how it works."
so can it go from 10psi to 20psi on the fly without being to rich on 10psi or not?
I dont know what you just said.. first you said "If the fuel map is completely tuned it should be tuned for proper operation at 10 and 20psi, " and then you said "If you think the ecu sprays the same fuel at 10psi as it does at 20psi you need to learn what a map sensor is and how it works."
so can it go from 10psi to 20psi on the fly without being to rich on 10psi or not?
11-06-2003, 10:34 AM
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Re: (B00stedCoupe)
If you're tuned right for 20psi I'd think you're tuned right for all #s underneath 20psi. After all, to get to 20psi you have to cross 10psi... and if you're not tuned for all the 10psi lines in the map you've got a problem if you're running 20psi...
11-06-2003, 11:19 AM
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Re: (B00stedCoupe)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B00stedCoupe »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">where is st00pid when u need him?</TD></TR></TABLE>
11-06-2003, 11:24 AM
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Re: (B00stedCoupe)
You are probably gonna need two chips . . . unless the 20psi will be on pump gas 
If your high was at 16psi (on pump) and you ran 10 on the streets you wouldnt run overly rich in either setting. I'm pretty sure everything under your highest boost pressure would be tuned provided it was all done on the same type of fuel. Someone correct me if I'm wrong 
If your high was at 16psi (on pump) and you ran 10 on the streets you wouldnt run overly rich in either setting. I'm pretty sure everything under your highest boost pressure would be tuned provided it was all done on the same type of fuel. Someone correct me if I'm wrong
11-06-2003, 11:27 AM
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Re: (raene)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by raene »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you're tuned right for 20psi I'd think you're tuned right for all #s underneath 20psi. After all, to get to 20psi you have to cross 10psi... and if you're not tuned for all the 10psi lines in the map you've got a problem if you're running 20psi... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly, when you tune the car you should not just set the boost at 20 and hammer away on the dyno and hope it dont blow up. In the tuning software you have a big spreadsheet with cells representing each pressure level at each rpm level containg a number that represents the amount of fuel that should be delivered at that instance of pressure and rpm, the ecu reads the exact pressure from the map sensor then refers to that corresponding cell to deliver the proper amount of fuel. The cells for 10psi are totally different from the cells at 20psi.
A good tuner should take some time and slowy turn up the boost each pull tuning all areas of the fuel map up to the max boost that is intended to be ran. You have to go through 10psi to get to 20psi so that area of the fuel map has to be tuned as well since during street driving, accelerating from different rpms, partial throttle etc. you could pass through any one of the cells in that area. If the map is fully tuned you should be able to run at whatever boost level you are tuned up to and anything below that. You should only need to retune if you are running more boost than you initially tuned for, you change to a different octane of fuel or something else in your setup changes.
Exactly, when you tune the car you should not just set the boost at 20 and hammer away on the dyno and hope it dont blow up. In the tuning software you have a big spreadsheet with cells representing each pressure level at each rpm level containg a number that represents the amount of fuel that should be delivered at that instance of pressure and rpm, the ecu reads the exact pressure from the map sensor then refers to that corresponding cell to deliver the proper amount of fuel. The cells for 10psi are totally different from the cells at 20psi.
A good tuner should take some time and slowy turn up the boost each pull tuning all areas of the fuel map up to the max boost that is intended to be ran. You have to go through 10psi to get to 20psi so that area of the fuel map has to be tuned as well since during street driving, accelerating from different rpms, partial throttle etc. you could pass through any one of the cells in that area. If the map is fully tuned you should be able to run at whatever boost level you are tuned up to and anything below that. You should only need to retune if you are running more boost than you initially tuned for, you change to a different octane of fuel or something else in your setup changes.
11-06-2003, 11:31 AM
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Any properly tuned ECU will have the correct A/F ratio at ALL boost levels, that is the whole point of having an ECU.
The only thing to consider is what kind of fuel you will be running. If the track is going to be on race fuel, then you might want to consider 2 different programs so that you can run 2 timing and fuel curves.
If both settings are on pump gas, you'll be fine.
The ECU knows the MASS per time interval of the air entering the motor, and therefore it can always give you the proper amount of fuel.
The only thing to consider is what kind of fuel you will be running. If the track is going to be on race fuel, then you might want to consider 2 different programs so that you can run 2 timing and fuel curves.
If both settings are on pump gas, you'll be fine.
The ECU knows the MASS per time interval of the air entering the motor, and therefore it can always give you the proper amount of fuel.
11-06-2003, 01:18 PM
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Re: (kpt4321)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kpt4321 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Any properly tuned ECU will have the correct A/F ratio at ALL boost levels, that is the whole point of having an ECU.
The only thing to consider is what kind of fuel you will be running. If the track is going to be on race fuel, then you might want to consider 2 different programs so that you can run 2 timing and fuel curves.
If both settings are on pump gas, you'll be fine.
The ECU knows the MASS per time interval of the air entering the motor, and therefore it can always give you the proper amount of fuel.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sorry, I should have clarified that my post was regarding you using pump gas for 10psi and 20 psi for race gas.
I wouldn't normally recommend 20psi on 91 octane gas.
The only thing to consider is what kind of fuel you will be running. If the track is going to be on race fuel, then you might want to consider 2 different programs so that you can run 2 timing and fuel curves.
If both settings are on pump gas, you'll be fine.
The ECU knows the MASS per time interval of the air entering the motor, and therefore it can always give you the proper amount of fuel.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sorry, I should have clarified that my post was regarding you using pump gas for 10psi and 20 psi for race gas.
I wouldn't normally recommend 20psi on 91 octane gas.
11-06-2003, 05:03 PM
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Do you think it is safe to tune a fully built motor on 20 psi w/ pump gas if at the track you will mix with race gas and on the street run slightly less boost. Pump gas 93 or 94 (hondata s200b)
11-08-2003, 02:05 PM
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Re: (1fastgsrturbo)
I'm so used to the S-AFC (that's all my friends use on DSMs and Hondas (inlinePRO tuning on the Hondas) that being able to switch the electric boost controller from 10 to 20 without instant tunng is incredible......and that is why Hondata and similar systems kick ***
11-08-2003, 02:41 PM
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Re: (techium)
Just shift at a reasonable RPM and don't floor it......staying out of boost (above a few psi) isn't really that hard unless you're itching to use the turbo kit you use spent all weekend installing it 
11-08-2003, 03:20 PM
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Re: (nocarloser)
It's not really the psi level, its the HP level you are making on pump gas. On 20psi on one block you may be making 365whp and that is on pump gas. Then you have another motor at 20psi making 550whp which should be on race gas. I know people have tuned a 500whp setup on pump gas, but that is little more power u wanna run on pump. 450whp is what I would suggest be the limit for pump gas, and I highly suggest you get a good tuner.
You really need to get the car on the dyno and just tune it for 10 psi and find out how much power you are making. By the time you tune for 14psi and up you may find that your setup is already making 450whp. That would be a good time to switch to race gas and make a completely new map. Actually you can use the map you have for pump gas as a basis and just add more timing and fuel etc etc and turn up the boost to the desired level and make your HP Goal. For me 575whp is my goal, but that would be on race gas. So I would have another chip just for that. But who knows when you will actually have to switch to race gas you know. Every setup is different. I make about 390whp at 10.5psi. If I turn up the boost to 13.5 I may already be in the 475whp range. If I want to run 20psi then I would have to switch race gas because of the fact I will be making more than 500whp. Like I said 500whp should be ran on race gas for most setups. Unless you got a crazy methanol injection setup or something. But most people don't. So anyways if your at 500whp at 20psi then I suggest tuning on race gas with a completely different map with more aggressive timing. Gosh I probably made this confusing. I would hope some people agree with me lol.
But who knows what your built block and turbo setup will make. If FOR EXAMPLE: You make 450whp at 20psi on your setup then you can tune that for pump gas no problem. Then if you wanna run 10lbs on the street then all u gotta do is turn down the boost to 10psi and your ready to go. Your whole map will be tuned for 94 octane or whatever and the fuel cells below 20psi will be setup for that gas. No need to have another map or burn another chip. Just gotta get on the dyno.
Like Greddy profec B, It has low and high setting? Basically that is for the optional button they sell. You have your low boost set to 8psi and your high boost to 14psi. It will switch from low boost to high boost with a push of a button.
Modified by BodyKits NW at 4:39 PM 11/8/2003
You really need to get the car on the dyno and just tune it for 10 psi and find out how much power you are making. By the time you tune for 14psi and up you may find that your setup is already making 450whp. That would be a good time to switch to race gas and make a completely new map. Actually you can use the map you have for pump gas as a basis and just add more timing and fuel etc etc and turn up the boost to the desired level and make your HP Goal. For me 575whp is my goal, but that would be on race gas. So I would have another chip just for that. But who knows when you will actually have to switch to race gas you know. Every setup is different. I make about 390whp at 10.5psi. If I turn up the boost to 13.5 I may already be in the 475whp range. If I want to run 20psi then I would have to switch race gas because of the fact I will be making more than 500whp. Like I said 500whp should be ran on race gas for most setups. Unless you got a crazy methanol injection setup or something. But most people don't. So anyways if your at 500whp at 20psi then I suggest tuning on race gas with a completely different map with more aggressive timing. Gosh I probably made this confusing. I would hope some people agree with me lol.
But who knows what your built block and turbo setup will make. If FOR EXAMPLE: You make 450whp at 20psi on your setup then you can tune that for pump gas no problem. Then if you wanna run 10lbs on the street then all u gotta do is turn down the boost to 10psi and your ready to go. Your whole map will be tuned for 94 octane or whatever and the fuel cells below 20psi will be setup for that gas. No need to have another map or burn another chip. Just gotta get on the dyno.
Like Greddy profec B, It has low and high setting? Basically that is for the optional button they sell. You have your low boost set to 8psi and your high boost to 14psi. It will switch from low boost to high boost with a push of a button.
Modified by BodyKits NW at 4:39 PM 11/8/2003