Tuners chime in! Ignition Tables
 

I made a map to basically start off with for street tuning until I can get on the dyno to actually attempt to tune ignition timing. How do these tables look just to start off with on the street for AF tuning? Safe? too conservative, or not enough timing? I just want timing safe enough to boost around until dyno time. Thanks for any advice.

LS/VTEC, 81.5mm 9:1, SC61, Ramhorn Mani, 3" exh/dp, no more than 10-12 psi

https://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f...y99/LowCam.jpg

https://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f...99/HighCam.jpg

Re: Tuners chime in! Ignition Tables (1SlowSi)
 

looks safe to me. r u using a stock mapsensor? if ur gonna boost 12 psi def look into a 2.5 or 3 bar map sensor

Re: Tuners chime in! Ignition Tables (boosted k20)
 

Ya it will be a 3 bar map sensor.

Re: Tuners chime in! Ignition Tables (1SlowSi)
 

What your rule of thumb to go by, with ignition timing?

Still learning ignition timing myself. http://is.rely.net/1-92-30009-l-tEzP...BTGi0jOCgA.gif https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

Re: Tuners chime in! Ignition Tables (AspectIndustries)
 

I would personally bring that high cam 3.8psi column everywhere above 6500 up a little bit to around 24.00, but overall it's safe.

Re: Tuners chime in! Ignition Tables (RC000E)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RC000E &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would personally bring that high cam 3.8psi column everywhere above 6500 up a little bit to around 24.00, but overall it's safe.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yah i hear ya man. I just wanted a good very safe starting point on the street, so yes pretty conservative is what I was going with. I just dont wanna have ANY worries while boosting for a few weeks until I hit the dyno. Not in it for power on the streets, just reliability and fun! https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...es/emsmile.gif

Re: Tuners chime in! Ignition Tables (1SlowSi)
 

you could add another degree or 2 above 6500 in the boost columns..


with an air fuel of between 11 and 12:1 on a basemap running around 1 degree per psi of boost retard works well to get you going, especially above 5-10 psi

Re: Tuners chime in! Ignition Tables (blackeg)
 

Can someone explain why above 6500 rpms? Thats two people that say that now lol. Why not add timing from the 5450rpm area?

Re: Tuners chime in! Ignition Tables (1SlowSi)
 

looks nice and safe to me. as for the other question you usually want to start adding more timing after your motor hits peak torque which is why they're suggesting over 6500.

Re: Tuners chime in! Ignition Tables (BlueSi2k)
 

Do some reading, get some dyno time & learn https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

Re: Tuners chime in! Ignition Tables (mtber)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mtber &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do some reading, get some dyno time & learn https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif </TD></TR></TABLE>

do you have any sugestions on good reading reguarding tuning?

Re: Tuners chime in! Ignition Tables (turbolshatch)
 

Well does it look like im on the right track sooo far?

Re: Tuners chime in! Ignition Tables (turbolshatch)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbolshatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

do you have any sugestions on good reading reguarding tuning?</TD></TR></TABLE>

efi101.com's forums is a good free resource, so is pgmfi.org
concerning books, i don't remember the titles off the top of my head

Re: Tuners chime in! Ignition Tables (mtber)
 

nice info

Re: Tuners chime in! Ignition Tables (b16a4)
 

So im left with a couple questions. You guys said to add some timing from 6500-redline. Wasnt max timing somewhere around the 5500-6000 rpm range? So basically what im trying to ask is, the timing that im adding from 6500, is that going to be the max timing that ill be running? I.E. If my desired timing was 18* for X amount of boost, then i would use 18* from 6500-redline? Meaning timing would be advancing UP to 18* from 0-6400rpms.

Ill put it another way just incase my example was jacked up. If the max amount of timing that I can run at or right after MBT is 18* then wouldnt adding more timing AFTER that mean detonation? being that 18* was the most the motor wanted?

Would the timing still stay flat from my 5450-6500 and then simply add a deg or so from 6500-redline?


I know my question may sound kinda confusing, but I cant find a way to ask it sorry. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emhammer.gif https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emhammer.gif https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emsmilep.gif

if you just want to be safe just do a .75/ psi if what they are saying is too confusing. also know that every car is different. i was using .75/psi on my LS on 15psi but it wasn't enought timing for it. at 15. so i added abt 2 degree more and it ran even better. just the best way to tell is on the dyno and to know your set up

Re: (bigbadboy)
 

Yeah i know man, but I just had questions about the added timing in the higher rpm range to keep the tq from falling off. Basically if the max timing was 18* then would i run 18* from 6500 till red line. Cause I dont see adding more timing up top if im already at max timing before 6500. Ill figure it out here shortly when someone chimes in https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

Re: (1SlowSi)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1SlowSi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah i know man, but I just had questions about the added timing in the higher rpm range to keep the tq from falling off. Basically if the max timing was 18* then would i run 18* from 6500 till red line. Cause I dont see adding more timing up top if im already at max timing before 6500. Ill figure it out here shortly when someone chimes in https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif </TD></TR></TABLE>

At elevated RPMS your VE drops, when that happens, your torque drops, when that happens you can increasing timing safely. What you have is fine for a base tune in higher RPMs. I don't like how low the timing is in the mid RPM range (3500 and up) It's too low and since spool should be around 5000 RPM you are going to lag bad while boost is building. I'm guessing that you're not tunign it because it sounds like you are missing quite a bit of information if you are. If you want to do it your self learn until you feel confident enough to get on a dyno and whack a good tune out. Have a method and stick with it. GL https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

Re: (adseguy)
 

I forgot to add that on a VTEC head the increased timing won't do too much . Heck try it out on the dyno you'll see what I mean. This is because the VTEC heads specifically carry out torque much longer. On an LS head or even worse a D series head or a V8 head significant gains can be had from adding timing after peak torque.

Re: (adseguy)
 

The dyno holds the answer to all your questions. The smartest person in the world can't give you the answers you are looking for, but the dyno can.

Re: (tony1)
 

The TQ curve holds all the answers

do a dyno run.

look at where the tq curve peaks and starts to fall/flatten out.

At the point of peak tq, and right before it, you should retard timing.

Following the peak tq hump, you can add a degree or two up to redline increasing incrementally with RPM.

When you stop making power, stop adding and back off .5 degree.

for reference, my GSR peaked somewhere around 6500 rpm with a t04e 57 trim.

and remember keep all the adjustments smooth; no huge jumps in timing. Everything should be incremental.

Re: (not2slo128)
 

good info https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

Re: (tony1)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The dyno holds the answer to all your questions. The smartest person in the world can't give you the answers you are looking for, but the dyno can.</TD></TR></TABLE>

TRUE! But I need to have an understanding FIRST before I go trying things on the dyno lol. I pretty much have a great understanding, but some things were fuzzy. Thanks for all the info so far guys.

So if the TQ starts to fall in the higher rpms, is it safe to say that you can go ahead and add more timing in that area? Im sure there are some cases where if you add timing is doesnt increase the tq but I guess im just gonna have to wait and see.

From what Im understanding... add timing throughout the rpm band until TQ doesnt increase any more in those areas, then back off a deg or so for safety. &lt;-- please tell me im right.. haha.