Traction problems near redline at only 5 psi on a SOHC...?
03-11-2008, 05:18 PM
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Traction problems near redline at only 5 psi on a SOHC...?
I finally installed my SC50 on my d16y8. The problem is, I'm only running 5psi and my tires break loose at about 7k RPMs in 1st, 2nd, and sometimes 3rd gear. I'm on BFG 225-60-15 radials (which barely fit, and rub sometimes) with an OBX LSD.
What's the deal? I want to turn the boost up, but there'd be no point right now because the tires break and I immediately hit the rev limit before I'm even at peak power. I could be wrong, but this doesn't seem normal to me at only 5psi on a SOHC. Do I need an alignment or something?
I could be wrong, but I imagine motor mounts and traction bars only help with traction when you launch, right?
What's the deal? I want to turn the boost up, but there'd be no point right now because the tires break and I immediately hit the rev limit before I'm even at peak power. I could be wrong, but this doesn't seem normal to me at only 5psi on a SOHC. Do I need an alignment or something?
I could be wrong, but I imagine motor mounts and traction bars only help with traction when you launch, right?
03-11-2008, 05:44 PM
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Re: Traction problems near redline at only 5 psi on a SOHC...? (Legion)
What kind of clutch do you have? Any way you could mistake a loss of traction with a slipping clutch? Symptoms are pretty similar. Also are you sure it is traction loss and not just torque steer? What is your suspension setup? Alignment issues? Since you are probably making all of 170-180whp I'm very weary on actually believing your breaking the tires loose. Especially in 3rd.
03-11-2008, 06:04 PM
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Re: Traction problems near redline at only 5 psi on a SOHC...? (nowtype)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nowtype »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What kind of clutch do you have? Any way you could mistake a loss of traction with a slipping clutch? Symptoms are pretty similar. Also are you sure it is traction loss and not just torque steer? What is your suspension setup? Alignment issues? Since you are probably making all of 170-180whp I'm very weary on actually believing your breaking the tires loose. Especially in 3rd.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I couldnt have said it any better myself.
Are you smelling clutch after you are "spinning"?
I couldnt have said it any better myself.
Are you smelling clutch after you are "spinning"?
03-11-2008, 06:06 PM
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Re: Traction problems near redline at only 5 psi on a SOHC...? (nowtype)
with that kind of power i doubt its breaking loose at the top of third on bfg's. Sounds like your clutch slipping to me...
03-11-2008, 06:29 PM
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Re: Traction problems near redline at only 5 psi on a SOHC...? (blwn95civic)
It's a relatively new Clutch Specialties clutch, rated at 450 ft-lbs. It's definitely not slipping. And it's not just torque steer - the LSD nearly eliminated that problem. Other than the fact that it gets squirly, the tach immediately hits the limiter, so I know the tires are slipping.
I don't really know what to do. I expect this head/cam/IM combo to make power to at least 8,200. All I can imagine is that my sloppy basemap isn't making enough power below 5500 and the power onset is too drastic. Even still, I thought the BFGs would do better
I don't really know what to do. I expect this head/cam/IM combo to make power to at least 8,200. All I can imagine is that my sloppy basemap isn't making enough power below 5500 and the power onset is too drastic. Even still, I thought the BFGs would do better
03-11-2008, 06:33 PM
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Re: Traction problems near redline at only 5 psi on a SOHC...? (Legion)
How bad is it to bounce off the rev limiter a few times? Obviously "it's not good," but does the fuel cut cause any possible detonation situation? Once it slips, it bounces off the limiter quite a few times before I can react and shift.
03-11-2008, 06:34 PM
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Re: Traction problems near redline at only 5 psi on a SOHC...? (Legion)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Legion »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> the tach immediately hits the limiter, so I know the tires are slipping.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That doesn't mean much, it will do the same thing if the clutch was slipping.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That doesn't mean much, it will do the same thing if the clutch was slipping.
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03-11-2008, 06:36 PM
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Re: Traction problems near redline at only 5 psi on a SOHC...? (Runnerdown)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Runnerdown »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That doesn't mean much, it will do the same thing if the clutch was slipping.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, I suppose you're right
. Still, this is an extremely beefy clutch. You should see my left calf muscle.
I guess I'll have to do some more testing (sniffing?). I haven't noticed the classic "burning clutch" smell yet.
Well, I suppose you're right
. Still, this is an extremely beefy clutch. You should see my left calf muscle.I guess I'll have to do some more testing (sniffing?). I haven't noticed the classic "burning clutch" smell yet.
03-11-2008, 07:12 PM
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Re: Traction problems near redline at only 5 psi on a SOHC...? (Legion)
Clutch slipping... orrr you're running about 25psi.
I'm running 16ish right now and I'm not losing it in 3rd.
I'm running 16ish right now and I'm not losing it in 3rd.
03-11-2008, 07:20 PM
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Re: Traction problems near redline at only 5 psi on a SOHC...? (SovXietday)
thats wierd your tires broke loose at redline? On my Y8 with gear dependent boost 2nd gear 10psi at VTEC i break the tires loose. how does you A/F look?? do you lean out alot when you start break loose?
03-11-2008, 07:50 PM
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Re: Traction problems near redline at only 5 psi on a SOHC...? (Legion)
lets hope your arent leaning out ... i bet if it leaned out and spiked 2 psi it would break loose tire preety easy .... 
03-11-2008, 08:30 PM
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its your clutch slipping since you said it starts to slip at 7,000 rpms. if it were your tires they would be breaking lose before that.
is it fairly brand new? when mine was brand new with freshly resurfaced flywheel and all. it would slip at the top of 3rd like crazy for about a week or two until it was broken in and then it stopped and never slipped since. at first i thought it was my tires spinning as well.
and no i never smelled any clutch when this was happening to me. just because you dont smell it doesnt mean its not slipping. the clutch can also slip without you even noticing it so dont rule out the clutch just like that.
is it fairly brand new? when mine was brand new with freshly resurfaced flywheel and all. it would slip at the top of 3rd like crazy for about a week or two until it was broken in and then it stopped and never slipped since. at first i thought it was my tires spinning as well.
and no i never smelled any clutch when this was happening to me. just because you dont smell it doesnt mean its not slipping. the clutch can also slip without you even noticing it so dont rule out the clutch just like that.
03-11-2008, 08:31 PM
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Re: Traction problems near redline at only 5 psi on a SOHC...? (95dc2teg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95dc2teg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i know you have some pretty wide tires but are they low on tread?</TD></TR></TABLE>
bfgs work better with no tread.
bfgs work better with no tread.
03-11-2008, 10:10 PM
#15
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Re: Traction problems near redline at only 5 psi on a SOHC...? (Legion)
Can you say boost creep? 
Datalog your boost level during these pulls. There is no possible way any D16 on 5psi makes enough power to do that.
Your torque peak is way before 7K rpm, so if it blows the tires off at 7K, it's obviously boost creep or a problem with your WG diaphragm or vaccum line routing/setup.
Datalog your boost level during these pulls. There is no possible way any D16 on 5psi makes enough power to do that.
Your torque peak is way before 7K rpm, so if it blows the tires off at 7K, it's obviously boost creep or a problem with your WG diaphragm or vaccum line routing/setup.
03-11-2008, 10:19 PM
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Re: Traction problems near redline at only 5 psi on a SOHC...? (JFK78)
Clutch has maybe 5k (babied, unboosted) miles. Hopefully it isn't really slipping . When you buy a clutch that's rated at 450 ft-lbs, you expect it to hold on an engine that makes 1/3 as much.
And I guess it could be boost creep... I'll have to get a passenger to ride along and check. Once I'm that high in the revs I stop looking at the gauge so I can focus on keeping my car on the road.
What exactly is the correlation between boost creep and lean a/f ratios? It does lean out slightly, from 12:1 to about 12.4:1, but I figured that's because it's a loosely thrown together basemap. I just installed some 780cc's and the injector re-scaler didn't work for crap. It threw everything way out of wack.
. When you buy a clutch that's rated at 450 ft-lbs, you expect it to hold on an engine that makes 1/3 as much.And I guess it could be boost creep... I'll have to get a passenger to ride along and check. Once I'm that high in the revs I stop looking at the gauge so I can focus on keeping my car on the road.
What exactly is the correlation between boost creep and lean a/f ratios? It does lean out slightly, from 12:1 to about 12.4:1, but I figured that's because it's a loosely thrown together basemap. I just installed some 780cc's and the injector re-scaler didn't work for crap. It threw everything way out of wack.
03-11-2008, 10:52 PM
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Re: Traction problems near redline at only 5 psi on a SOHC...? (Legion)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Legion »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What exactly is the correlation between boost creep and lean a/f ratios? It does lean out slightly, from 12:1 to about 12.4:1, but I figured that's because it's a loosely thrown together basemap. I just installed some 780cc's and the injector re-scaler didn't work for crap. It threw everything way out of wack.</TD></TR></TABLE>
There is no correlation between boost creep and lean AFR's provided that you have sufficient fueling, MAP sensor range, and a decently close fueling map.
The 12.4:1 AFR you are seeing may be related to wheelspin as AFR's tend to go slightly lean when wheelspin occurs.
What exactly is the correlation between boost creep and lean a/f ratios? It does lean out slightly, from 12:1 to about 12.4:1, but I figured that's because it's a loosely thrown together basemap. I just installed some 780cc's and the injector re-scaler didn't work for crap. It threw everything way out of wack.</TD></TR></TABLE>
There is no correlation between boost creep and lean AFR's provided that you have sufficient fueling, MAP sensor range, and a decently close fueling map.
The 12.4:1 AFR you are seeing may be related to wheelspin as AFR's tend to go slightly lean when wheelspin occurs.
03-12-2008, 09:16 AM
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Re: Traction problems near redline at only 5 psi on a SOHC...? (Legion)
theres a simple solution to figuring out if its the clutch. Datalog a run. If your rpm's are shooting to the moon and your mph is staying still or barely moving with large changes in rpm then its the clutch. Usually if its bad enough you can see this by looking at your gauge cluster when it begins to slip.
03-12-2008, 02:02 PM
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Re: Traction problems near redline at only 5 psi on a SOHC...? (SOHC_MShue)
I believe the OP have these tires, http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...T%2FA
Maybe some of the reply was assuming that he had the T/A Comp. Drag radial tires which according to the size it couldnt be since the drag radial dont come in 225 60 15.
I guess it could break loose a all season tires
Maybe some of the reply was assuming that he had the T/A Comp. Drag radial tires which according to the size it couldnt be since the drag radial dont come in 225 60 15.
I guess it could break loose a all season tires
03-12-2008, 02:24 PM
#21
Man U FTW
Unless he's using the tire mentioned in the link above, i would have to assume that the clutch is slipping. I run the BFG Drag Radial T/A Comp and at 315whp, i couldn't spin them in any gear other than first. They were a 225/50/15.
03-12-2008, 02:48 PM
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Re: (mike93eh2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike93eh2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">he probably meant 235/60/15 that everyone uses since he said they barely fit and rub.</TD></TR></TABLE>
As far as i know BFG dont make BFG Drag radial in that size
As far as i know BFG dont make BFG Drag radial in that size
03-12-2008, 02:55 PM
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Re: (StolenTeg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StolenTeg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
As far as i know BFG dont make BFG Drag radial in that size</TD></TR></TABLE>
o rly?
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...ace=1
As far as i know BFG dont make BFG Drag radial in that size</TD></TR></TABLE>
o rly?
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...ace=1
03-12-2008, 02:57 PM
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When i had my y8 at 5psi, I was barely chirping second, At 10psi, 1st breaks up, at 6500-6700, 2nd is pure wheel spin, nice chip in 3rd,
If im launching, throttle feathering all the way. I need traction.
If im launching, throttle feathering all the way. I need traction.