bzyq2001

what reatiners i shuld to choose ALU, TI or Chro-moly? my engine is b16a2 with supertech springs, type r valves, skunk2 pro1 cams; it will be about 15-18psi and 10k rpm

full Circling

there's no reason to rev up to 10k other than to try and look cool. instead of stressing your engine to high hell to make power, just turn up the boost. will those cams even make power up to 10k? lol, people that rev to 10k on boost have lots of money to waste on a shoebox honda, have run out of other safer ways to make power, and are usually running 600+ wheel.

revving to 10k to make less than 400whp isn't very smart as it's brutal on your internals.

bzyq2001

yes, this cams make power till 10k, tony show that in the test, but i'm asking about retainers

quicksilver1689

the tensile loads on the motor at 10k are tremendous

bzyq2001

i don't ask about tensile- my question is which one retainers i should buy and why?

teg racer 877

im willing to bet that ti is your best bet for stregth and lightness, alum is to weak and chro-moly is to heavy.

95 integra

iTrader: (2)

The stock ones seem to work very well. You can rev a bit higher with lighter retainers, however with stiff springs and stage I cam (ie relatively low lift cam) you can hit 10k with stock retainers.

HiProfile

I think the more important question would be why build for 10k and limit yourself to 18 psi? If thats because you plan on running pump gas in it, I can garauntee your motor far surpass what pump gas can get you by 10k, assuming it doesn't run out of power like you say.

Also Tony showed they worked, but with other mods, the correct turbo, etc. BTW if you're so buddy-buddy with him, why hasn't he told you?


To answer your question, Ti if its an occational race car, chromoly if you will run it often and don't want to replace the retainers a few times.

rorik

I didn't know the supertech springs were a match for the pro1 cams. As far as retainers, I don't know. There was another thread floating around here somewhere about that.

As far as the b16 and 10k, is it really that hard on it? The motor only has a 77mm stroke, compared to 87.2 and 89 for the gsr and ls.

90teg

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HiProfile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also Tony showed they worked, but with other mods, the correct turbo, etc. BTW if you're so buddy-buddy with him, why hasn't he told you? </TD></TR></TABLE>

He probably saw Tony's thread and assumes that his set up will do the same.

95 integra

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rorik &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

As far as the b16 and 10k, is it really that hard on it? The motor only has a 77mm stroke, compared to 87.2 and 89 for the gsr and ls.</TD></TR></TABLE>


The rod/stroke ratio makes a much larger difference and its about the same as the B18s because of the shorter deck height.

Lubo_25

titanium is a heavenly material but has its disadvantages anyway you slice it yes it can be heat treated and such but it will never be like steel...chrome moly for a dd is a wise decision(they can also be surface ground to make addition clearance for your valve seals) but ppl will say im wrong which is fine to each their own im not here to prove my metallurgy to anyone aluminum is the last choice for retainer material they dont like heavy seating pressures thats for sure they will disappear quickly with the wrong set up...good luck comrade

blinx9900

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95 integra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


The rod/stroke ratio makes a much larger difference and its about the same as the B18s because of the shorter deck height.</TD></TR></TABLE>

im not sure if your saying rs is important or not here, but a b16s rs is certainly not the same as a b18's, for example a b18c is about 1.5x while a b16 is 1.7x if you do some math and figure out piston speed (i did this a long time ago) you'll come to realise that at any give rpm the piston speed of a b16a that is revving 1000rpm over will be the same as b18c, like a b16a at 9000rpm will have almost the same piston speed as a b18c at 8000rpm.

however things like piston speed and r/s ratio arent the whole story, balanced parts are every bit as important and proper lubrication and heat control, i'd be more worried about the head than the block at 10,000rpm.

as far as retainers, sorry OP i have no advice for you, nor do i agree with your quest, but if its something you have to get out of your system then DO IT! thats certainly something i can understand

Cole D

supertech now offers aluminum retainers pretty nice stuff..... plus RLZ and DonF don't have a problem with them. I'm putting them in my motor build

.RTErnie

The more you rev...the more HP you make. so...rev the **** out of it.

Ti retainers are what you want. Be careful as they gall and will need constant checking! If you notice yourself having to do valve adjustments more frequently than normal....I'd take them out and mic them.

Cole D

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cole D &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">supertech now offers aluminum retainers pretty nice stuff..... plus RLZ and DonF don't have a problem with them. I'm putting them in my motor build </TD></TR></TABLE>

Here's the post for reference

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1916189&page=2

blinx9900

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RTErnie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The more you rev...the more HP you make. so...rev the **** out of it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

assuming the turbo dosent run out of steam, ok so you can put a larger housing on it to fix that, but your gonna just shifting your powerband higher up.

david@didrace.com

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blinx9900 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

assuming the turbo dosent run out of steam, ok so you can put a larger housing on it to fix that, but your gonna just shifting your powerband higher up. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Horsepower is a function of torque over time. So if you can hold X amount of torque to a higher rpm you make more horsepower. We can all just run diesels if rpm doesn't mean anything... right?

blinx9900

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by david@didrace.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Horsepower is a function of torque over time. So if you can hold X amount of torque to a higher rpm you make more horsepower. We can all just run diesels if rpm doesn't mean anything... right?</TD></TR></TABLE>

thanks for the lesson but i know what horsepower is, in fact i can even convert horsepower to monkey power but thats another story, im not sure why you quoted me, i never said RPM didnt matter. your response dosent seem to relate to me, i was simply stating that a larger turbine housing may be in order for the OP's quest to 10k and that he may lose some power down low doing that. im not trying to start **** here, im just not sure why you quoted me

bzyq2001

it well be daily driving car, i don't want stock/itr retainers becouse at 9k rpm they like to crack

bzyq2001

and how havy are crommoly retainers?

0morgan@synapse motorsport

Ti would be the way to go, but as everyone said there is always maintenance involved in them. its not gonna wear overnight but should be checked regularly.

with that said, just because tony made big power up top doesnt mean it will work for everyones setup. you are using stock ITR valves those are not intended for 10k rpm use nor would i suggest using them. they have a hollow valve stem and i have personally seen failure at 9k rpm, and seen others fail in that ballpark as well. tony was also using 1mm oversized valves i think? as well as a **** ton of port work, that all helps in making big top end power.

more than likely it will make great top end, but the logic of it worked for him, im going to have the exact same results is rather foolish.

Cole D

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike@synapse motorsport &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ti would be the way to go, but as everyone said there is always maintenance involved in them. its not gonna wear overnight but should be checked regularly.

with that said, just because tony made big power up top doesnt mean it will work for everyones setup. you are using stock ITR valves those are not intended for 10k rpm use nor would i suggest using them. they have a hollow valve stem and i have personally seen failure at 9k rpm, and seen others fail in that ballpark as well. tony was also using 1mm oversized valves i think? as well as a **** ton of port work, that all helps in making big top end power.

more than likely it will make great top end, but the logic of it worked for him, im going to have the exact same results is rather foolish.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well said

rorik

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95 integra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


The rod/stroke ratio makes a much larger difference and its about the same as the B18s because of the shorter deck height.</TD></TR></TABLE>

b16 1.74:1, b17 1.62:1, gsr 1.58:1, ls/b20 1.54:1. I would not say the r/s makes a larger difference than the stroke, either.

Is it possible to have a valvetrain that will rev that high without frequent checking/maintenance?

bootlegcivic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike@synapse motorsport &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ti would be the way to go, but as everyone said there is always maintenance involved in them. its not gonna wear overnight but should be checked regularly.

with that said, just because tony made big power up top doesnt mean it will work for everyones setup. you are using stock ITR valves those are not intended for 10k rpm use nor would i suggest using them. they have a hollow valve stem and i have personally seen failure at 9k rpm, and seen others fail in that ballpark as well. tony was also using 1mm oversized valves i think? as well as a **** ton of port work, that all helps in making big top end power.

more than likely it will make great top end, but the logic of it worked for him, im going to have the exact same results is rather foolish.</TD></TR></TABLE>


You tell em Mike!!!