Eluzion

Well I pulled my plugs today because it's about time to replace them. Well, from left to right... all the plugs were white on the tip besides the last one, it was pitch black. I switched that plug around with one of the white tip ones and drove down to Schucks to pick up new plugs, and drove back. Pulled them out and sure enough, that very right cylinder (furthest from the distributer) the plug was pitch black and the one I swapped it with was white (the pitch black one to begin with). So I've come to the conclusion that perhaps I'm running lean in 3 cylinders and rich on one? I know spark plugs aren't a very accurate way of gauging how your motor is running but I think it gives you some sort of idea of what's going on, especially when they are complete opposite colors.

Any ideas? This is on a built B16A with a Drag3 kit. RC 550 injectors (Walbro 255 fuel pump) and running Uberdata. I'm running my friends program for temporary (he has a similar setup.... just needed something to get it running till I can get it tuned). Just odd how that very far right cylinder is running so damn rich, and the rest seem to be lean.

I put some new plugs in though. I'll pull them tommorow and see how they look. I'm guessing it will be the same.

Rod.

check to see if your injectors are acting up

Eluzion

You mean like pull them out and take them to a shop and have them checked out (which cost quite a bit if I remember correclty)? Or is there a way to quickly test if they are working properly?

Eluzion

Just pulled them out again with the new plugs. From left to right (distributer to furthest side).

Normal (golden brownish), White, White, Black.

No idea what's up.

Eluzion

Just did a compression test too. From left to right:

140-158-158-170

Probably should have done it on a warm motor but oh well. Either way, something is up... 140 and 170?

Vtec92Civic

wow there is a nice gap between cylinder 1 & 4 that's a 30 psi difference. What's happening is that cylinder # 1 (furthest from the cap) is running rich as hell. I would find it hard to believe that 3 injectors would be messed up, so maybe that one injector is leaking fuel or something to make that one cylinder run rich.

You notice that the cylinder that is running rich has the highest compression out of the rest?

run some injector cleaner or seafoam through and see if that helps you out at all. Seafoam is the ****

Eluzion

I swapped the very far right injector with the one next to it. Ran it for a bit (ran it pretty damn hard) and came back and checked them again. Still the same so I don't think it's an injector problem. I did switch the spark plugs before and they instantly changed colors.

I have no idea what could be causing all the cylinders to be running differently. Looks like all four of the plugs came out of a different car.

Eluzion

Could spark plug gap be the problem? I'm running 0.35 right now (well a friend gapped them for me.. i should regap them). Wondering if I should go down to .025.

Running about 12psi right now on RC 550's.

turbosi03

yeah definately check the spark gaps... is it possible the ring gap on piston #1 could be off, maybe the gap is too small??? I don't know if high compression in a cylinder (getting the same fuel as the lower comp cylinders) can cause the cyl to be rich though... does anyone know?

hmm, interesting...

sway892

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eluzion &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just did a compression test too. From left to right:

140-158-158-170

Probably should have done it on a warm motor but oh well. Either way, something is up... 140 and 170? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Do a wet test as well, just squirt some oil in the cylinder being tested. If your compression is higher than before, then your car has bad piston rings

All cylinder compression should be within 20% of each other

Eluzion

Yeah was gonna do that later today. I'm hoping nothing is wrong with the rings since the motor only has like 2-3k miles on it.

I want to fix this fuel problem first though... gonna try regapping and maybe pull the fuel rail off (AEM) and see if it's clogged or something.

Eluzion

Just a little update on my quest to figure out what the hell is wrong with my motor. Pulled the rail off today, looked perfectly clean. Pulled the B&M regulator off as well and drilled the small hole so it works properly with aftermarket fuel pumps. Regapped the plugs to 30 from 35.... I still think the problem is gonna be the same but I'll pull the plugs tommorow and see... sigh I'm out of ideas now.

Yani

could it be that the plug wire in that cylinder is bad?

Eluzion

Well these wires came off my GSR motor, which ran fine (although it was a little lean on the GSR as well, but all across). I'm gonna double check them though.

MachAF

Get your injectors flow tested!

sway892

Did you do the wet test and what were your reading? or

Eluzion

Nah haven't done the wet compression test yet.

I did check the plug wires with an ohm meter and they are fine. I'm starting to think the problem is not with fuel, but rather the ignition. I read a thread where a guy was having the same exact problem and after he replaced his distributer, it was fine.

dnbruut

you cant check sparkplugs with a ohmmeter! most the time the isulation is the problem, how are you gonna check that with a ohmmeter?annyway its a weird problem. might be a ecu problem, its a long shot but try too check the duty-cycles of the inj. see if they are the same! good luck

Adi Radoncic

Hey, I have the exact same thing going on with my car, its a built b16 block and sparkplugs 2-4 are perfect looking accept for number one which is always black.

I personally think the problem has nothing to do with plugs, plug gap, ignition, or injectors but the shitty flow characteristics of the stock b16a intake manifold allthou mine has been extrude honed I think the plenum on this perticular manifold is too small and can't provide enough air for the last runner in its path.

How could 2 or 3 cars have the same problem in the same cylinder?? 3 bad injectors in the same cylinder? 3 bad plug wires on everyones number 1cyl?
3 bad distributors doing the same thing on 3 cars, maybe but there would be more complaints from other people!
3 motors with bad rings on number one, sure this could be possible but my compression is fine in all 4 last time i checked.

I'm gona put new plugs in, regap them and switch the plug wires, I'm also gona do a compression test again if none of those things determine my problem I'm gona install the jg edelbrock manifold and see what happens.

Tell me more about your setup and will figure this out man..

Eluzion

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dnbruut &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you cant check sparkplugs with a ohmmeter! most the time the isulation is the problem, how are you gonna check that with a ohmmeter?annyway its a weird problem. might be a ecu problem, its a long shot but try too check the duty-cycles of the inj. see if they are the same! good luck </TD></TR></TABLE>

Hrm thought it was an ohm meter I was using. Whatever it was, it tested resistance.

Eluzion

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by newgsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey, I have the exact same thing going on with my car, its a built b16 block and sparkplugs 2-4 are perfect looking accept for number one which is always black.

I personally think the problem has nothing to do with plugs, plug gap, ignition, or injectors but the shitty flow characteristics of the stock b16a intake manifold allthou mine has been extrude honed I think the plenum on this perticular manifold is too small and can't provide enough air for the last runner in its path.

How could 2 or 3 cars have the same problem in the same cylinder?? 3 bad injectors in the same cylinder? 3 bad plug wires on everyones number 1cyl?
3 bad distributors doing the same thing on 3 cars, maybe but there would be more complaints from other people!
3 motors with bad rings on number one, sure this could be possible but my compression is fine in all 4 last time i checked.

I'm gona put new plugs in, regap them and switch the plug wires, I'm also gona do a compression test again if none of those things determine my problem I'm gona install the jg edelbrock manifold and see what happens.

Tell me more about your setup and will figure this out man..</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm running a buitl B16A as well. Skunk2 Intake Manifold too. Weird thing is I know people running B16's with no problems what so ever. I'm starting to think it's my distributer or something with the ignition because I've checked everything I could that is fuel related. I don't think it could be the ECU, because I'm running the same Uberdata program as a friend who has absolutely no problems (I am going to tune it though for my car, just waiting on the wideband o2).

One thing weird is that when I was plugging the injectors up, they wouldn't fit because there's a little black piece inside the injector plug that needed to be cut out. Seems kinda odd that had to be done but I had friends reassure me it was ok. Once that little piece was cut (just a piece of plastic basically), everything plugged up perfectly. These are RC550 (saturated) by the way.

And actually, the title of this thread is kinda wrong. After putting new plugs in, it now runs:

Normal, Lean, Lean, Rich

sway892

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dnbruut &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you cant check sparkplugs with a ohmmeter! most the time the isulation is the problem, how are you gonna check that with a ohmmeter?annyway its a weird problem. might be a ecu problem, its a long shot but try too check the duty-cycles of the inj. see if they are the same! good luck </TD></TR></TABLE>

Hey he wasn't checking the spark plugs, he was checking resistance in the wires.

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle

Eluzion

Did a compression test today, with oil. Used a cap full in each cylinder.

Did the test first without them, came out:

145, 158, 158, 170

Did it with oil and each one went up by about 20-25.

Changed the oil today with HyperLube. Changed the rotor and going to change the distributer cap Monday. Put in new plugs as well (# 7's) with a 28 gap.

Adi Radoncic

These other guys you know with b16s are their setups similar or are they runing built bottom ends??

I looked at the plugs again on my car today and my plugs look all perfect besides number 1 which is rich...

I'm still thinking that this is a air flow issue for me and the theory behind this is that if there isn't enough air coming in there is nothing to burn so the cylinder stays richer than all of the other ones...

But than again it could the the plug wires too because I'm still using the stockers and the one might just be worn out....??

Eluzion

Well my friend is runnin' a turbo b16a3 with a semi-built motor (rods and pistons). He has a Skunk2 IM as well and running the same injectors (RC 550's).

If the cap and rotor doesn't help at all, I might just try changing the entire distributer.