*Boostwerks*

:Flame suit on:

I'm interested in hearing what others have to say about my proposed turbo choice. I'll first tell you my goals, and my situation.

I am going to be boosting a stock block B16 with my fully built GSR head. I want to make 300whp uncorrected, which is about 400 corrected due to being up here in Denver. I have plans to rev the motor to 9k, and If I can have full boost before 5K I am golden. Because I'm pushing the limits of the stock motor, I'd like to run the lowest possible boost to keep the IATs as low as possible (hence why I'm looking at the 67).

From all those factors I have come down to the T3/67 with the .63ar and stage 3 wheel. I would also be using a blox manifold to try and decrease the spool time as much as possible.

And from what it looks like, most people running the stage 5 wheel on 1.8l blocks start spooling around 4K. I figure with the log manifold, and the stage 3 wheel that I could get the 1.6 to start to spool around 4.

The more I look at henry's graph it makes me want the turbo...

The runs were made on 13psi on 91 octane..
http://www.full-race.com/dyno_charts/Henry.JPG

And then boosted hybrids car...
11psi on a GSR with a thicker HG
http://www.boosted-hybrid.com/pics/jeff.jpg

What kind of spool times have you seen on stock blocks?

I know most people will say this turbo is overkill, but if I can get 300 uncorrected whp at less than 10psi, and have full boost before 5k, it would be perfect for me. You also have to factor in that I'm at altitude and would need more air flow/pressure for the same amount of power. Which would you rather increase flow, or pressure?

Thanks for any input!

Adi Radoncic

I think you are on the right track for your goals but I think you would be better of running some kind of a ram horn manifold with it just because of the flow characteristics and better power output, the 67 is a good choice for what ur trying to do, the only other thing I would suggest is some cams ctrs or something alike.
Not sure what your budget is but I think those two things will help tremendously.

Whatever u decide on, good luck!

*Boostwerks*

Well, I would be running GSR cams (since I have em, might as well use em...hehe).

I actually have a LoveFab mini-me currently, but I'm trying to sell it. I would just rather have the reliability of a cast iron manifold, as well as the affordability factor. My radiator setup has also changed since my last setup, and the Mini-me puts the WG right in the side of the core. I also think that because I'm not going to be looking for 700hp, that the spool benefits of the log manifold out weigh the top end benefits of the ram horn style of manifolds.

liam821

dude..what happened to your gsr motor?

*Boostwerks*

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by liam821 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
dude..what happened to your gsr motor?</TD></TR></TABLE>

GONE. The block is currently pending, the pistons are pending, the crank is sold, and I traded Johnzm my crower rods for his mint B16 shortblock...

It's all about the stock block for me now.

blundar

Having tuned two cars with T3/T67s and blox-style manifolds, I have to say both are atrocious as street cars IMHO. Responsiveness with them is ****... 81mm + 83mm 9:1 sleeved GSRs... The 83mm wasn't half shabby but the 81 was ****.

I'd personally be looking at something more like a SC34/SC50 in a .48A/R. B16s are pigs to drive until they see positive presure. I honestly vote for running 15psi on a smaller turbo, having a larger powerband and dealing with having to run a few extra pounds. big f'in deal. The motor will stay in one piece just fine - keep AFRs rich, don't run much timing advance, have lower hp/psi and tune it safer.

Just my 2 cents.

*Boostwerks*

Thanks for the feedback Dave!

I think I've decided NOT to get this turbo...

I'm going to get just a 60 trim T3/T4 with the .63ar and stage 3 wheel. If I have to boost higher, then meh. Plus its cheaper...

redzcstandardhatch

definitely a good choice...

and for a reliable street car, make it an amazingly perfect partial throttle tune, and a rich safe boost tune....best thing you can do...but you know that.

my brother just drove his wild turbo maxima from chicago to phoenix. 175k stock vg30 engine....runs perfect. pumping a RICH 12 psi into it, making well over 300 whp...and its dead nuts reliable.

TurboTegB18c

I'd definately recommend the 57 trim over the 60 trim. The 60 trim spools later and really doesn't give much more power over the 57 trim. The 57 trim has a better overall powerband. Paul

*Boostwerks*

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by redzcstandardhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">definitely a good choice...

and for a reliable street car, make it an amazingly perfect partial throttle tune, and a rich safe boost tune....best thing you can do...but you know that.

my brother just drove his wild turbo maxima from chicago to phoenix. 175k stock vg30 engine....runs perfect. pumping a RICH 12 psi into it, making well over 300 whp...and its dead nuts reliable. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah. I have a freind that is a Neptune dealer here in CO, so hes going to help me out with the tuning aspects.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TurboTegB18c &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd definately recommend the 57 trim over the 60 trim. The 60 trim spools later and really doesn't give much more power over the 57 trim. The 57 trim has a better overall powerband. Paul</TD></TR></TABLE>

But see, how much later? A couple hundred RPMs max most likely. I've compared the 57, and the 60 trim graphs and for the amount of airflow that I would need to make 300 uncorrected, at my desired pressure ratio. The 60 is perfect around 30-40lbs/min at a 2PR. It is putting out around 78-79% effic, while the 57 is only 76%, and at a lower flow rate. I don't understand why so many people are all hyped up about the 57 trim. The 50, and 60 trims are definetly the 2 best possible choices for the standard T3/T4 B series.

blundar

At least get a .48 A/R if you get the 60trim... You're not trying for 450 whp, so why fake like you are? B16s don't have the displacement so make sure you have the spool.

In any case, I'd take 300 RPMs lower spool and 3% less efficiency on a B16 with 300whp as a target. Hell, I might even take the lower efficiency of the 50trim for the spool rewards you will reap.

Remember these T04E compressors don't run out of steam until MUCH more power than you're trying to make. Smaller turbo, faster spool, more boost is the recipie I think works best for B16s, but then again, that's a personal opinion.

93preludes

I say keep your mini-me if you go with one of these equal length manifolds I dont think you will see the spool time you want... they dont spool as quick as short runner manifolds.

just my .02

just saw that you are keeping it... sorry, misread.

TurboTegB18c

Can i ask why you are limiting yourself to that specific amount of psi?

*Boostwerks*

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blundar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">At least get a .48 A/R if you get the 60trim... You're not trying for 450 whp, so why fake like you are? B16s don't have the displacement so make sure you have the spool.

In any case, I'd take 300 RPMs lower spool and 3% less efficiency on a B16 with 300whp as a target. Hell, I might even take the lower efficiency of the 50trim for the spool rewards you will reap.

Remember these T04E compressors don't run out of steam until MUCH more power than you're trying to make. Smaller turbo, faster spool, more boost is the recipie I think works best for B16s, but then again, that's a personal opinion.</TD></TR></TABLE>

But dave, I am looking for 300 uncorrected. I have to flow as much as a 400whp car does at sealevel to make 300 up here. I'm still going to go with the .63ar just because I think it's the ideal ar for what I'm looking for. I had the .63ar on my stock ZC at it spooled by 4k, but I only had 7500revs. With the B16 I have 9000.

My freind had to boost his 50trim to almost 28psi on his DSM to make about 350 uncorrected HP. Granted he did make almost 300ft/lbs of torque.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93preludes &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I say keep your mini-me if you go with one of these equal length manifolds I dont think you will see the spool time you want... they dont spool as quick as short runner manifolds.

just my .02

just saw that you are keeping it... sorry, misread.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually, I'm not keeping it...assuming I can sell it. I will be going with the Blox cast manifold to simplify things (my reasons were posted above).

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TurboTegB18c &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can i ask why you are limiting yourself to that specific amount of psi? </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm not neccisairly limiting myself to any such boost level. However, I'm just trying to make the most HP, reliably and have full boost before 5k. Because I am boosting the stock block, the less boost I can run to meet my HP goals the better. I am trying to keep the IATs as low as possible.

timg

I've seen altitude dramatically affect spool times. My Monte and S2000 spool 500-1000 rpm later at higher altitudes (5,000-10,000').
100 rpm later spool per 1000 feet seems like a pretty decent guesstimator from what I've seen. Ball bearings do help, but can't eliminate all of it. (my amount of lag increases more quickly with increasing altitude than my boost threshold does)

Tim