Is there anyway to not use a bov
02-23-2006, 03:40 PM
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Is there anyway to not use a bov
I tried searching...I was wondering, say for a 2002 civic si with around 250whp and tq...is it really necessary to use a bov...or a way around it by using something like a wrx uses? Just curious...reason being is to avoid the extra sound of the bov. I've owned a tial, and even that was loud for me.
02-23-2006, 03:50 PM
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Re: Is there anyway to not use a bov (02SilverSiHB)
you dont HAVE to use one, it will just put more wear and stress on your turbo from compresser surge. I wouldn't run my car without one, but you dont have to use one.
02-23-2006, 03:55 PM
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Re: Is there anyway to not use a bov (02SilverSiHB)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 02SilverSiHB »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I tried searching...I was wondering, say for a 2002 civic si with around 250whp and tq...is it really necessary to use a bov...or a way around it by using something like a wrx uses? Just curious...reason being is to avoid the extra sound of the bov. I've owned a tial, and even that was loud for me.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Don't use one or simply use a recirculating one.
Get ready to hear whoop-whoop-whooop instead of Pshhhhhh however if you don't run one.
Don't use one or simply use a recirculating one.
Get ready to hear whoop-whoop-whooop instead of Pshhhhhh however if you don't run one.
02-23-2006, 03:56 PM
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Re: Is there anyway to not use a bov (SlowB16si)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SlowB16si »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> it will just put more wear and stress on your turbo from compresser surge. I wouldn't run my car without one, .</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is an unsubstantiated myth sir.
The primary purpose of a BOV is for emissions . Most OEm turbo applications use Mass air flow sensors which need recirculating BOV's to make sure the MAF sensor doesn't read the air twice when the air reverses direction.
From a performance standpoint A BOV can help or hurt performance slightly depending on how much boost pressure is used and the way the car is driven. In fact you will never hear a world rally car go pshhh, but rather woof-woof-woof because they get better performance without dumping their boost pressure.
From a reliability standpoint their is no proof that BOV's help at all, infact if you think about it BOV pose a reliability risk because in vacuum they are partially open sucking in air without a filter when using an aftermarket open dump BOV.
You need to understand that shutting closed the throttle and thus cutting off almost all of the air supplied to the engine will in turn dramatically slow the turbine wheel by itself so you do not need to worry about a surge of backpressure causing the compressor wheel to rotate backwards because it never does. The whoof-whoof-whoof sound is merely the noise created by cavitation.
Their are many turbocharged cars which have had long reliable life's without a BOV.
This is an unsubstantiated myth sir.
The primary purpose of a BOV is for emissions . Most OEm turbo applications use Mass air flow sensors which need recirculating BOV's to make sure the MAF sensor doesn't read the air twice when the air reverses direction.
From a performance standpoint A BOV can help or hurt performance slightly depending on how much boost pressure is used and the way the car is driven. In fact you will never hear a world rally car go pshhh, but rather woof-woof-woof because they get better performance without dumping their boost pressure.
From a reliability standpoint their is no proof that BOV's help at all, infact if you think about it BOV pose a reliability risk because in vacuum they are partially open sucking in air without a filter when using an aftermarket open dump BOV.
You need to understand that shutting closed the throttle and thus cutting off almost all of the air supplied to the engine will in turn dramatically slow the turbine wheel by itself so you do not need to worry about a surge of backpressure causing the compressor wheel to rotate backwards because it never does. The whoof-whoof-whoof sound is merely the noise created by cavitation.
Their are many turbocharged cars which have had long reliable life's without a BOV.
02-23-2006, 05:51 PM
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Re: Is there anyway to not use a bov (dasher)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dasher »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is an unsubstantiated myth sir.
The primary purpose of a BOV is for emissions . Most OEm turbo applications use Mass air flow sensors which need recirculating BOV's to make sure the MAF sensor doesn't read the air twice when the air reverses direction.
From a performance standpoint A BOV can help or hurt performance slightly depending on how much boost pressure is used and the way the car is driven. In fact you will never hear a world rally car go pshhh, but rather woof-woof-woof because they get better performance without dumping their boost pressure.
From a reliability standpoint their is no proof that BOV's help at all, infact if you think about it BOV pose a reliability risk because in vacuum they are partially open sucking in air without a filter when using an aftermarket open dump BOV.
You need to understand that shutting closed the throttle and thus cutting off almost all of the air supplied to the engine will in turn dramatically slow the turbine wheel by itself so you do not need to worry about a surge of backpressure causing the compressor wheel to rotate backwards because it never does. The whoof-whoof-whoof sound is merely the noise created by cavitation.
Their are many turbocharged cars which have had long reliable life's without a BOV. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Not quite.
Per Garrett's Website:
Compressor surge is when the air pressure after the compressor is actually higher than what the compressor itself can physically maintain. This condition causes the airflow in the compressor wheel to back up, build pressure, and sometimes stall. In cases of extreme surge, the thrust bearings of the turbo can be destroyed, and will sometimes even lead to mechanical failure of the compressor wheel itself.
Also you cant compare a WRC car to a street driven car. WRC cars get overhauled and worked on all the time. They are RACE cars, and they have the best setup for power (having compressed air in the intake pipes all the time is better performance than bleeding the air off through a valve). WRC teams have lots of money, and rebulding turbos is not as much a problem, for the performance they get. F1 cars drive hours at extremly high RPM's so shoudl we all drive at near redline rpms all the time? yet again there motors are broken down before every race and made sure no parts have failed during the hard races.
The primary purpose of a BOV is for emissions . Most OEm turbo applications use Mass air flow sensors which need recirculating BOV's to make sure the MAF sensor doesn't read the air twice when the air reverses direction.
From a performance standpoint A BOV can help or hurt performance slightly depending on how much boost pressure is used and the way the car is driven. In fact you will never hear a world rally car go pshhh, but rather woof-woof-woof because they get better performance without dumping their boost pressure.
From a reliability standpoint their is no proof that BOV's help at all, infact if you think about it BOV pose a reliability risk because in vacuum they are partially open sucking in air without a filter when using an aftermarket open dump BOV.
You need to understand that shutting closed the throttle and thus cutting off almost all of the air supplied to the engine will in turn dramatically slow the turbine wheel by itself so you do not need to worry about a surge of backpressure causing the compressor wheel to rotate backwards because it never does. The whoof-whoof-whoof sound is merely the noise created by cavitation.
Their are many turbocharged cars which have had long reliable life's without a BOV. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Not quite.
Per Garrett's Website:
Compressor surge is when the air pressure after the compressor is actually higher than what the compressor itself can physically maintain. This condition causes the airflow in the compressor wheel to back up, build pressure, and sometimes stall. In cases of extreme surge, the thrust bearings of the turbo can be destroyed, and will sometimes even lead to mechanical failure of the compressor wheel itself.
Also you cant compare a WRC car to a street driven car. WRC cars get overhauled and worked on all the time. They are RACE cars, and they have the best setup for power (having compressed air in the intake pipes all the time is better performance than bleeding the air off through a valve). WRC teams have lots of money, and rebulding turbos is not as much a problem, for the performance they get. F1 cars drive hours at extremly high RPM's so shoudl we all drive at near redline rpms all the time? yet again there motors are broken down before every race and made sure no parts have failed during the hard races.
02-23-2006, 06:22 PM
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Re: Is there anyway to not use a bov (Civicman86)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Civicman86 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not quite.
Per Garrett's Website:
Compressor surge is when the air pressure after the compressor is actually higher than what the compressor itself can physically maintain. This condition causes the airflow in the compressor wheel to back up, build pressure, and sometimes stall. In cases of extreme surge, the thrust bearings of the turbo can be destroyed, and will sometimes even lead to mechanical failure of the compressor wheel itself.
Also you cant compare a WRC car to a street driven car. WRC cars get overhauled and worked on all the time. They are RACE cars, and they have the best setup for power (having compressed air in the intake pipes all the time is better performance than bleeding the air off through a valve). WRC teams have lots of money, and rebulding turbos is not as much a problem, for the performance they get. F1 cars drive hours at extremly high RPM's so shoudl we all drive at near redline rpms all the time? yet again there motors are broken down before every race and made sure no parts have failed during the hard races.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I depends on what they consider "extreme surge"... you have to understand their are many cars running reliably without a BOV for many years on the original turbo.
Per Garrett's Website:
Compressor surge is when the air pressure after the compressor is actually higher than what the compressor itself can physically maintain. This condition causes the airflow in the compressor wheel to back up, build pressure, and sometimes stall. In cases of extreme surge, the thrust bearings of the turbo can be destroyed, and will sometimes even lead to mechanical failure of the compressor wheel itself.
Also you cant compare a WRC car to a street driven car. WRC cars get overhauled and worked on all the time. They are RACE cars, and they have the best setup for power (having compressed air in the intake pipes all the time is better performance than bleeding the air off through a valve). WRC teams have lots of money, and rebulding turbos is not as much a problem, for the performance they get. F1 cars drive hours at extremly high RPM's so shoudl we all drive at near redline rpms all the time? yet again there motors are broken down before every race and made sure no parts have failed during the hard races.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I depends on what they consider "extreme surge"... you have to understand their are many cars running reliably without a BOV for many years on the original turbo.
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02-23-2006, 06:36 PM
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Re: Is there anyway to not use a bov (dasher)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dasher »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I depends on what they consider "extreme surge"... you have to understand their are many cars running reliably without a BOV for many years on the original turbo.</TD></TR></TABLE>
There are also quite a few cars running around on shitty fuel managment? So should we all go with FMU's or stock computers (Yes I know a car on stock fuel mani been running 2 years now)?
I think Garrett knows better than 99% of the people on this board. They produce turbocharges, and we use them. Extreme case of backpressure can happen, and is a threat enough for them to put it on their website. I didnt quote earlier the part directly underneath that paragraph saying that a cause could be:
" * A compressor bypass valve is not integrated into the intake plumbing between the compressor outlet and throttle body
* The outlet plumbing for the bypass valve is too small or restrictive
* The turbo is too big for the application "
What you say makes some sense but the fact is that the air has to go somewhere. If you dont have a bypass valve then it will go back through the compressor.
There are also quite a few cars running around on shitty fuel managment? So should we all go with FMU's or stock computers (Yes I know a car on stock fuel mani been running 2 years now)?
I think Garrett knows better than 99% of the people on this board. They produce turbocharges, and we use them. Extreme case of backpressure can happen, and is a threat enough for them to put it on their website. I didnt quote earlier the part directly underneath that paragraph saying that a cause could be:
" * A compressor bypass valve is not integrated into the intake plumbing between the compressor outlet and throttle body
* The outlet plumbing for the bypass valve is too small or restrictive
* The turbo is too big for the application "
What you say makes some sense but the fact is that the air has to go somewhere. If you dont have a bypass valve then it will go back through the compressor.
02-23-2006, 06:40 PM
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Re: Is there anyway to not use a bov (02SilverSiHB)
Bov is necessary if you want your turbo to last but even without the bov you would still hear compressor surge and it pretty damn loud on my car. Go get yourself a recirculated bov and your all set
02-23-2006, 06:43 PM
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name one car you've seen blow a turbo that's FROM compressor surge
i'm from the mustang camp first and foremost...and until recently...a lot of ppl NEVER touched bov's back when we were all blow through
i know of cars running from the 80's with no bovs...a few daily, most weekend only...but still no issues
i'm from the mustang camp first and foremost...and until recently...a lot of ppl NEVER touched bov's back when we were all blow through
i know of cars running from the 80's with no bovs...a few daily, most weekend only...but still no issues
02-23-2006, 06:46 PM
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Re: Is there anyway to not use a bov (Civicman86)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Civicman86 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Not quite.
Per Garrett's Website:
Compressor surge is when the air pressure after the compressor is actually higher than what the compressor itself can physically maintain. This condition causes the airflow in the compressor wheel to back up, build pressure, and sometimes stall. In cases of extreme surge, the thrust bearings of the turbo can be destroyed, and will sometimes even lead to mechanical failure of the compressor wheel itself.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
The compressor surge they are talking about on Garret's website is when you have too much engine and too little turbo. it causes surge. this is an extreme example but imagine a t25 on a viper. that 8 litre flows so much that at 5psi its probbaly like you running 30psi on a b16. that much flow will cause the turbo to surge and ultimately destroy it. this has nothing to do with BOV's
Not quite.
Per Garrett's Website:
Compressor surge is when the air pressure after the compressor is actually higher than what the compressor itself can physically maintain. This condition causes the airflow in the compressor wheel to back up, build pressure, and sometimes stall. In cases of extreme surge, the thrust bearings of the turbo can be destroyed, and will sometimes even lead to mechanical failure of the compressor wheel itself.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
The compressor surge they are talking about on Garret's website is when you have too much engine and too little turbo. it causes surge. this is an extreme example but imagine a t25 on a viper. that 8 litre flows so much that at 5psi its probbaly like you running 30psi on a b16. that much flow will cause the turbo to surge and ultimately destroy it. this has nothing to do with BOV's
02-23-2006, 06:49 PM
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Re: Is there anyway to not use a bov (Civicman86)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Civicman86 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
There are also quite a few cars running around on shitty fuel managment? So should we all go with FMU's or stock computers (Yes I know a car on stock fuel mani been running 2 years now)?
I think Garrett knows better than 99% of the people on this board. They produce turbocharges, and we use them. Extreme case of backpressure can happen, and is a threat enough for them to put it on their website. I didnt quote earlier the part directly underneath that paragraph saying that a cause could be:
" * A compressor bypass valve is not integrated into the intake plumbing between the compressor outlet and throttle body
* The outlet plumbing for the bypass valve is too small or restrictive
* The turbo is too big for the application "
What you say makes some sense but the fact is that the air has to go somewhere. If you dont have a bypass valve then it will go back through the compressor.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
The info on their site has nothing to do with BOV's or the need for one as I said before they are talking about compressor surge from having an undersized turbo. you could have two of biggest bov's in the world, if the turbo is still undersized it will surge and get damaged.
There are also quite a few cars running around on shitty fuel managment? So should we all go with FMU's or stock computers (Yes I know a car on stock fuel mani been running 2 years now)?
I think Garrett knows better than 99% of the people on this board. They produce turbocharges, and we use them. Extreme case of backpressure can happen, and is a threat enough for them to put it on their website. I didnt quote earlier the part directly underneath that paragraph saying that a cause could be:
" * A compressor bypass valve is not integrated into the intake plumbing between the compressor outlet and throttle body
* The outlet plumbing for the bypass valve is too small or restrictive
* The turbo is too big for the application "
What you say makes some sense but the fact is that the air has to go somewhere. If you dont have a bypass valve then it will go back through the compressor.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
The info on their site has nothing to do with BOV's or the need for one as I said before they are talking about compressor surge from having an undersized turbo. you could have two of biggest bov's in the world, if the turbo is still undersized it will surge and get damaged.
02-23-2006, 06:52 PM
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Re: Is there anyway to not use a bov (Civicman86)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Civicman86 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
There are also quite a few cars running around on shitty fuel managment? So should we all go with FMU's or stock computers (Yes I know a car on stock fuel mani been running 2 years now)?
I think Garrett knows better than 99% of the people on this board. They produce turbocharges, and we use them. Extreme case of backpressure can happen, and is a threat enough for them to put it on their website. I didnt quote earlier the part directly underneath that paragraph saying that a cause could be:
" * A compressor bypass valve is not integrated into the intake plumbing between the compressor outlet and throttle body
* The outlet plumbing for the bypass valve is too small or restrictive
* The turbo is too big for the application "
What you say makes some sense but the fact is that the air has to go somewhere. If you dont have a bypass valve then it will go back through the compressor.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
The info on their site has nothing to do with BOV's or the need for one as I said before they are talking about compressor surge from having an undersized turbo. you could have two of biggest bov's in the world, if the turbo is still undersized it will surge and get damaged.
There are also quite a few cars running around on shitty fuel managment? So should we all go with FMU's or stock computers (Yes I know a car on stock fuel mani been running 2 years now)?
I think Garrett knows better than 99% of the people on this board. They produce turbocharges, and we use them. Extreme case of backpressure can happen, and is a threat enough for them to put it on their website. I didnt quote earlier the part directly underneath that paragraph saying that a cause could be:
" * A compressor bypass valve is not integrated into the intake plumbing between the compressor outlet and throttle body
* The outlet plumbing for the bypass valve is too small or restrictive
* The turbo is too big for the application "
What you say makes some sense but the fact is that the air has to go somewhere. If you dont have a bypass valve then it will go back through the compressor.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
The info on their site has nothing to do with BOV's or the need for one as I said before they are talking about compressor surge from having an undersized turbo. you could have two of biggest bov's in the world, if the turbo is still undersized it will surge and get damaged.
02-23-2006, 07:04 PM
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Re: Is there anyway to not use a bov (Boostage)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostage »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The info on their site has nothing to do with BOV's or the need for one as I said before they are talking about compressor surge from having an undersized turbo. you could have two of biggest bov's in the world, if the turbo is still undersized it will surge and get damaged.</TD></TR></TABLE>
" Common conditions that result in compressor surge on turbocharger gasoline engines are:
A compressor bypass valve is not integrated into the intake plumbing between the compressor outlet and throttle body"
Has everything to do with the blow off valve.
And on top of that the garrett site says its not a undersized turbo that could alos cuase the surge, but an OVERSIZED turbo ("The turbo is too big for the application").
Explain your theory on surging a small turbo on a big motor? I guess what Im asking is, What is your definition of compressor surge? Either way if you ran that small of a turbo, you would be so far out of the efficency and blowing so much hot air that you would probally detonate and would have more serious things to worry about.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by s13-t »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">name one car you've seen blow a turbo that's FROM compressor surge
i'm from the mustang camp first and foremost...and until recently...a lot of ppl NEVER touched bov's back when we were all blow through
i know of cars running from the 80's with no bovs...a few daily, most weekend only...but still no issues</TD></TR></TABLE>
That is a much easier question to ask then to answer. Mainly becuase almost every car on the road today uses a blow off valve on their car.
Just becuase certain cars didnt blow up their turbos does not mean its good. Back in the 80s they didnt have good fuel managment, so what is better? 80's technology or present day? Like I said above, you can run a FMU on a car and it will run, but is it really the right way (I guess its all a matter of opinion)?
How can you all say a turbine spinning at 1000's of RPM and suddenly being pushed to go into the opposite direction is not stressful on parts?
Modified by Civicman86 at 8:14 PM 2/23/2006
" Common conditions that result in compressor surge on turbocharger gasoline engines are:
A compressor bypass valve is not integrated into the intake plumbing between the compressor outlet and throttle body"
Has everything to do with the blow off valve.
And on top of that the garrett site says its not a undersized turbo that could alos cuase the surge, but an OVERSIZED turbo ("The turbo is too big for the application").
Explain your theory on surging a small turbo on a big motor? I guess what Im asking is, What is your definition of compressor surge? Either way if you ran that small of a turbo, you would be so far out of the efficency and blowing so much hot air that you would probally detonate and would have more serious things to worry about.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by s13-t »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">name one car you've seen blow a turbo that's FROM compressor surge
i'm from the mustang camp first and foremost...and until recently...a lot of ppl NEVER touched bov's back when we were all blow through
i know of cars running from the 80's with no bovs...a few daily, most weekend only...but still no issues</TD></TR></TABLE>
That is a much easier question to ask then to answer. Mainly becuase almost every car on the road today uses a blow off valve on their car.
Just becuase certain cars didnt blow up their turbos does not mean its good. Back in the 80s they didnt have good fuel managment, so what is better? 80's technology or present day? Like I said above, you can run a FMU on a car and it will run, but is it really the right way (I guess its all a matter of opinion)?
How can you all say a turbine spinning at 1000's of RPM and suddenly being pushed to go into the opposite direction is not stressful on parts?
Modified by Civicman86 at 8:14 PM 2/23/2006
02-23-2006, 07:32 PM
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Re: Is there anyway to not use a bov (Civicman86)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Civicman86 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
That is a much easier question to ask then to answer. Mainly becuase almost every car on the road today uses a blow off valve on their car.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Most turbo cars who use recirculating blow off valves use them for emmisions purposes because many use MAF air flow sensors. Without a BOV the MAF would be confused and count the air twice when the pressure reverses and richen up the fuel mixture thus causing the car to fail emmisions.
Furthermore, you’ll be interested to note that Subaru fits a (closed-loop) blow-off valve to their production engines for the purpose of reducing induction noise. This is stated in the factory workshop manual.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Civicman86 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Just becuase certain cars didnt blow up their turbos does not mean its good. Back in the 80s they didnt have good fuel managment, so what is better? 80's technology or present day? Like I said above, you can run a FMU on a car and it will run, but is it really the right way (I guess its all a matter of opinion)?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
But if turbos last just as long with or without a BOV and I have yet to see one documented case of the lack of a BOV causing the turbo to prematurely wear than what good does this "technology" do for reliability?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Civicman86 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"
How can you all say a turbine spinning at 1000's of RPM and suddenly being pushed to go into the opposite direction is not stressful on parts?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
NO. The turbine will never spin in the opposite direction due to lack of a BOV.
Sometimes a aftermarket blow-off valve can CAUSE pre-throttle pressure spikes.
That is a much easier question to ask then to answer. Mainly becuase almost every car on the road today uses a blow off valve on their car.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Most turbo cars who use recirculating blow off valves use them for emmisions purposes because many use MAF air flow sensors. Without a BOV the MAF would be confused and count the air twice when the pressure reverses and richen up the fuel mixture thus causing the car to fail emmisions.
Furthermore, you’ll be interested to note that Subaru fits a (closed-loop) blow-off valve to their production engines for the purpose of reducing induction noise. This is stated in the factory workshop manual.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Civicman86 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Just becuase certain cars didnt blow up their turbos does not mean its good. Back in the 80s they didnt have good fuel managment, so what is better? 80's technology or present day? Like I said above, you can run a FMU on a car and it will run, but is it really the right way (I guess its all a matter of opinion)?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
But if turbos last just as long with or without a BOV and I have yet to see one documented case of the lack of a BOV causing the turbo to prematurely wear than what good does this "technology" do for reliability?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Civicman86 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"
How can you all say a turbine spinning at 1000's of RPM and suddenly being pushed to go into the opposite direction is not stressful on parts?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
NO. The turbine will never spin in the opposite direction due to lack of a BOV.
Sometimes a aftermarket blow-off valve can CAUSE pre-throttle pressure spikes.
02-23-2006, 07:36 PM
#16
so how come i got a beat down old dodge in my garage that at 118,000 miles still makes 15+ psi of boost and has never seen a BOV in its life? matter of fact people who have run these cars find that putting a BOV on them HURTS performance....as in 3-4 mph on the 1/4 mile...
02-23-2006, 07:36 PM
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Re: Is there anyway to not use a bov (Civicman86)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Civicman86 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just becuase certain cars didnt blow up their turbos does not mean its good. Back in the 80s they didnt have good fuel managment, so what is better? 80's technology or present day? Like I said above, you can run a FMU on a car and it will run, but is it really the right way (I guess its all a matter of opinion)?
How can you all say a turbine spinning at 1000's of RPM and suddenly being pushed to go into the opposite direction is not stressful on parts?
Modified by Civicman86 at 8:14 PM 2/23/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>
what the **** does 80's technology have to do with a blow off ******* valve? all the cars i know were running blow through (which is still VERY prevelant today) or were running some sort of stand alone setup. a lot of the ones that were running then are still running now and have changed over to EFI setups..and i know 5 off hand that still aren't running bov's and are driving daily with 100k miles on their turbos adn are just NOW starting to smoke a bit or have minimal shaft play
all you're doing in this thread is saying that it COULD happen...that it COULD be a problem. you've got no proof. i can present more substance than you can, purely because i don't have my head up my e-*** like you, and get out and see real things in the non-e-world you're constantly referring too
How can you all say a turbine spinning at 1000's of RPM and suddenly being pushed to go into the opposite direction is not stressful on parts?
Modified by Civicman86 at 8:14 PM 2/23/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>
what the **** does 80's technology have to do with a blow off ******* valve? all the cars i know were running blow through (which is still VERY prevelant today) or were running some sort of stand alone setup. a lot of the ones that were running then are still running now and have changed over to EFI setups..and i know 5 off hand that still aren't running bov's and are driving daily with 100k miles on their turbos adn are just NOW starting to smoke a bit or have minimal shaft play
all you're doing in this thread is saying that it COULD happen...that it COULD be a problem. you've got no proof. i can present more substance than you can, purely because i don't have my head up my e-*** like you, and get out and see real things in the non-e-world you're constantly referring too
02-23-2006, 07:44 PM
#19
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Re: Is there anyway to not use a bov (Civicman86)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Civicman86 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I think Garrett knows better than 99% of the people on this board. They produce turbocharges, and we use them.
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Personally I don't know why Garrett would state such a thing. Maybe they are doing it because theoretically cavitation can cause more wear on the turbo(despite it not being noticable in the real world). Maybe they state so because they are looking for another legal excuse so they do not have to be liable for a turbocharger failure?
Their are many experts in the industry who say otherwise and I can quote them if needed.
I think Garrett knows better than 99% of the people on this board. They produce turbocharges, and we use them.
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Personally I don't know why Garrett would state such a thing. Maybe they are doing it because theoretically cavitation can cause more wear on the turbo(despite it not being noticable in the real world). Maybe they state so because they are looking for another legal excuse so they do not have to be liable for a turbocharger failure?
Their are many experts in the industry who say otherwise and I can quote them if needed.
02-23-2006, 07:46 PM
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If you are so worried about being too loud you should'nt be turboing your car. If you are so worried about it get a fabricator to direct the bov outlet somewhere down farther exiting your car. They can route it so there will be almost no sound heard. piping directing the air outside of your car inside parameters.
02-23-2006, 07:48 PM
#21
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Re: (TurBros)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TurBros »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you are so worried about being too loud you should'nt be turboing your car.</TD></TR></TABLE>
What? A Turbo actually quites the exhaust tone. Having a fast quiet car is better done with a turbo.
What? A Turbo actually quites the exhaust tone. Having a fast quiet car is better done with a turbo.
02-23-2006, 07:55 PM
#22
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Re: (AbitAvenger)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AbitAvenger »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">blow off valves ftw</TD></TR></TABLE>
easiest way to tell an ignorant ricer....post like that...
ftw..that's just ******* gay to say
easiest way to tell an ignorant ricer....post like that...
ftw..that's just ******* gay to say
02-23-2006, 08:14 PM
#23
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Re: Is there anyway to not use a bov (s13-t)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by s13-t »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what the **** does 80's technology have to do with a blow off ******* valve? all the cars i know were running blow through (which is still VERY prevelant today) or were running some sort of stand alone setup. a lot of the ones that were running then are still running now and have changed over to EFI setups..and i know 5 off hand that still aren't running bov's and are driving daily with 100k miles on their turbos adn are just NOW starting to smoke a bit or have minimal shaft play
all you're doing in this thread is saying that it COULD happen...that it COULD be a problem. you've got no proof. i can present more substance than you can, purely because i don't have my head up my e-*** like you, and get out and see real things in the non-e-world you're constantly referring too</TD></TR></TABLE>
LOL to funny. Your getting so bent out of shape over a damn internet thread? Tell me who has their head up what? Chill, its a message board, its not life. If your really didnt care you would just let it be and not spaz out like you did above. Again chill, its not a big deal.
So your telling me blowoff valves are useless and only used in cars to pass smog testing?
Oh Im sorry I cant give you examples in my garage. I have owned one turbo car in my life and dont have the resources to show you what would happen.
Also why do you keep saying their is a cavity. When the tb close the turbo is still compressing air (if it is closed very quickly) and therefore there is a solid column of air in the pipes. This goes backwards and strains the compressor to let the air back out. How is this not stressful, and how do you come to the conclusion that their is this vacancy in the piping?
Also how does the the aftermarket blow off valve cuase pre throttle pressure spikes? No throttle no boost?
Take some prozak (sp?) before replying next time too
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by v4lu3s »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so how come i got a beat down old dodge in my garage that at 118,000 miles still makes 15+ psi of boost and has never seen a BOV in its life? matter of fact people who have run these cars find that putting a BOV on them HURTS performance....as in 3-4 mph on the 1/4 mile...</TD></TR></TABLE>
You cant read the first post or two I replied with. I said that having no BOV will increase performance becuase there will be a coloumn of air in the charge pipes at all times and wont be bleed off. Please dont respond if you have not fully read what I have typed.
all you're doing in this thread is saying that it COULD happen...that it COULD be a problem. you've got no proof. i can present more substance than you can, purely because i don't have my head up my e-*** like you, and get out and see real things in the non-e-world you're constantly referring too</TD></TR></TABLE>
LOL to funny. Your getting so bent out of shape over a damn internet thread? Tell me who has their head up what? Chill, its a message board, its not life. If your really didnt care you would just let it be and not spaz out like you did above. Again chill, its not a big deal.
So your telling me blowoff valves are useless and only used in cars to pass smog testing?
Oh Im sorry I cant give you examples in my garage. I have owned one turbo car in my life and dont have the resources to show you what would happen.
Also why do you keep saying their is a cavity. When the tb close the turbo is still compressing air (if it is closed very quickly) and therefore there is a solid column of air in the pipes. This goes backwards and strains the compressor to let the air back out. How is this not stressful, and how do you come to the conclusion that their is this vacancy in the piping?
Also how does the the aftermarket blow off valve cuase pre throttle pressure spikes? No throttle no boost?
Take some prozak (sp?) before replying next time too
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by v4lu3s »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so how come i got a beat down old dodge in my garage that at 118,000 miles still makes 15+ psi of boost and has never seen a BOV in its life? matter of fact people who have run these cars find that putting a BOV on them HURTS performance....as in 3-4 mph on the 1/4 mile...</TD></TR></TABLE>
You cant read the first post or two I replied with. I said that having no BOV will increase performance becuase there will be a coloumn of air in the charge pipes at all times and wont be bleed off. Please dont respond if you have not fully read what I have typed.
02-23-2006, 08:17 PM
#24
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Re: Is there anyway to not use a bov (Civicman86)
Civicman86- what are you talking about? let me explain it better. you can sustain 25psi on an t3/sc61 on any b series, you cant sustain even 20psi on an t3/sc61 on a 5.7 ls1 engines because there is too much engine flow. and you would reach the surge limit really fast. that is what Garret is talking about. that is why the have a surge line on their compressor maps. just like s13 said. many car have run along time without a bov with no issues. if you only argument is Garret mentioned a lack of bov is ONE of the reasons you can get surge which btw is under extreme situation) then you dont have much of an argument. the plain and simple FACT is that thousands of people have gone years on high boost applications without a bov without issues. that alone brings this thread to an end.
02-23-2006, 08:19 PM
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Re: Is there anyway to not use a bov (s13-t)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by s13-t »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
all you're doing in this thread is saying that it COULD happen...that it COULD be a problem. you've got no proof. i can present more substance than you can, purely because i don't have my head up my e-*** like you, and get out and see real things in the non-e-world you're constantly referring too</TD></TR></TABLE>
And this is all that needs to be said in this thread!
all you're doing in this thread is saying that it COULD happen...that it COULD be a problem. you've got no proof. i can present more substance than you can, purely because i don't have my head up my e-*** like you, and get out and see real things in the non-e-world you're constantly referring too</TD></TR></TABLE>
And this is all that needs to be said in this thread!