4.8t

Here is the deal. I've been doing a crap ton off reading of just random stuff on here. And now I have a question. I'm going to be building a f23 block with h22 head. There is a good Likely hood that I'm going to go ahead and sleeve it and make it a 2.4l. Now for my question. The turbo I have is a to4r "big kahuna" with a p trim turbine wheel. It did Have a .96 a/r t4 turbine housing on it when I ran it on my tahoe. But I have since swap on a .68 t3 housing in expectation of this build. But in doing some reading on here it seems guys are running t4 housings. So should I stick with the t3 or go to like a .70 t4 housing? I will be running a custom tubular manifold. And I'm shooting for 8000rpm shift. My goal is 450whp unless it just happens to make more . Which one would let it spool by 4000-4500 rpm and not choke it to death at top rpm?

Thanks for the opinions.

Either way I will be using this turbo. I already have it so it's gonna get used.

4.8t

Anybody out there?

4.8t

all these looks and still no ideas? do i need to post more info?

raene

You're not getting a lot of replies because you're pretty far off the beaten path as far as simple responses go.

You've stated desired redline and spool point but nothing as far as plans for horsepower or application. Drag setup? Street setup? I'll just comment generically since I can't figure out from the description what the goal probably is... though I'm leaning towards it sounding more like a weekend warrior type of setup.

Simply based off the displacement, you could possibly get away with "decent" response on a T4 housing if it's well-matched. Pick the right manifold and that will help as will. Generically speaking, log or divided will give you the best response time; I have no experience with logs on a T4 housing so I can't say if they respond as well as logs with a T3; T4s are just plain bigger so higher flow, might not build up that high EMP that helps "spool".

The manifold is the sticking point; decide if you want a T3 or a T4 housing and go from there. T3s will top out around 700ish hp, more if you're willing to spend for the newer billet options. That's TOP OUT, not make comfortably for ages and ages. T4s will go well beyond what your engine will handle but response typically will suffer.

I'm not a guru, sorry the response is kinda generic, good luck with the setup

4.8t

i stated a goal of 450whp in the OP. the car is my daily driver but that doesn't mean that i'm very nice to it. but it will see the drag strip there is no doubt about that. i want something thats not going to be in boost al the time. meaning stop light to stop light or on the interstate going up and down hills i won't need boost due to the amount of torque the 2.4 should be making any how. that way it will still get good mileage while crusing and mild acceleration (sp). but when i want it, i want to be able to down shift and roll into boost and get nasty. i'm going to build the manifold myself. i want ti to be a divided tang setup for sure. the motor will be built, corillo rods and wiseco pistons along with some good head work. fuel system will be made to provide enough fuel for later increases in power that i know i will want along with water/meth injection.

i'm thinking a .50 t4 divided tang housing. that way if/when i decide i want more power i can go to a bigger t4 housing if need be and not have to cut off a t3 flange to weld on t4 flange.

like i said earlier, if you guys need more info just ask what you want to know and i'll do the best i can give it.

excuse the spelling errors, i'm coming to the end of my 12 hour shift so i'm a bit tired.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

That's fine but the compression that you decide will make all the difference as to whether or not it will respond "off boost" as you say you want. 450whp is a relatively decent amount of power, but a T4, even in the smaller size housings is very unnecessary. You're a 2.4 litre, not a 350 small block.

Tangential is standard whether or not you go T3 or T4 housing. But now you at least know the current and innovative designs out there to go from.

C'mon. More detail here. everyone uses "built", but not knowing static compression and true purpose of the car, still puts a lot of people in the dark to give ideas. Be more specific please.


For the power goals you're looking for even in the future, you'll have MUCH more options T3. You might not be up to date with the current options available. If you do decide to stay T4 divided, the only recommendation that seems reasonable is the EFR Borg-Warner series for ultimate response. Otherwise, stay T3 and have more options from Not only Borg-warner, but from the other turbo camps. For only 450whp, you're making it much more difficult than it is.

4.8t

i didn't post my compression because i didn't feel like hearing the ole "thats too high" or "thats not good for boost because thats what i was told by my sisters boyfriends dad" but if you must know it will be 10.3:1. thats what is gonna be regardless of what everybody thinks it should be.


Tangential may be standard but there not always divided not to mention you have on center housings too. and what do you mean "But now you at least know the current and innovative designs out there to go from." not sure i understand this, sounds like your trying to be an ***. this isn't my first turbo, but it is my first 4 cyl turbo. and who builds 350's any more? thats ***** out dated they don't even make them in trucks and cars any more.

i gave the purpose of the car. and as stated before it will be 10.3:1 static.

see thats the other part, nobody ever read everything when you do post up info. i stated in the very first post that i OWN a T04R with a p trim turbine wheel. and that will be the turbo i'm going to use. so i could car less about other "current options " of other turbo companies. just what housing to use on miy turbo.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Unbelievably ridiculous you know. I really was trying to be helpful...until this point. In actuality 10.3:1 was fine for compression, but you kept just insisting on being secretive and vague, as much as you didn't believe that you were. We don't know you, your level of experience with certain turbos or whether or not you know everything or anything. But that's what happens when you come in with a goal and a use; you give a part of your personality and needs as you describe what you're trying to do because people here don't know what you're trying to do...Perhaps you're just looking for validation for your decisions and not being open to new ideas, but after this last comment, you're on your own, sir. Good luck with whatever you decide. No one here is going to fight with you or assist with such a degenerate attitude.

raene

Sorry, missed the 450hp part. Yeah, a T4 is total overkill for that.

Don't worry so much about accidentally hitting boost. That's easily controlled with throttle. Besides which, hitting a couple pounds of boost regularly is fine. It's not like your turbo's never moving unless it hits boost... it's always spinning, just a matter of how fast. Not like a couple lazy pounds of boost from a big turbo is going to dramatically heat the intake air either.

4.8t

check it out, if you were honestly trying to be helpfull then i apologize. but if you re-read it from my point of view it comes off a little smart assy. like i said before, i purposely left stuff out. i sit and search and read a **** ton of threads on here every night. and 80% of the time some one will ask a question and post up their build and all they get are comments teling them why their build is all wrong. but nothing to answer the actual question at hand. again if you were actually trying to help then my apologizes to you. like you said, i too don't know who you are or how your are so i can't put tones together from words to help put an attitude together.

that being said here is my build goals (if budget allows) i have a f23a5 complete motor and a h22 complete motor that now has a rod out the side of the block due to huge water puddle. so i plan to use the h22a head on the f23a5 block (with possible sleeves for 89mm bore). it will have corrilo rods and wiseco pistons. as per the calculator it should have ruffly 10.3:1 scr. i say ruffly because i'm not sure how the deck is on the block or the head for that matter. the head will soon be shipped to wcch for port polish and all that goodness. their more know for the gm heads like the ls3 style head they have that flows 450+cfm. but they do many many other types. from bikes to hemi hell i even seen a suzuki head while i was there. very good guys and they know how to make things work. cams will be stock for now until i decide what i want to do. personally i'd like a pro 2 intake cam and a bisi stage 2.4 exhaust cam. but that will be down the road. as of now the intake is stock besides the port work to fit the 05 IIRC TL type s throttle body.

i remember reading a "how to build a honda" book once back in the day when i first got into hondas. there was a guy with a prelude i think and it was turbo charged and the turbo was by the trans with nice long runners. real nice setup and i'm thinking of doing the same. this car will have full a/c and power steering. i'm really concidering a nice w2a intercooler. if i do this the plumbing will be extremly short for the charge pipes. thats about it so far, i'm still researching on what i want to do for the clutch and other random things. i will be running my m2b4 trans. in my opinion the gears are short enough to keep the motor in nice revs while being long enough to stay in boost. about forgot, the down pipe will be 3" along with the exhaust. but it woun't be 3" right off the housing because the t3 i have has like a 2.5" outlet. so it will be 2.5 through a cone transition to 3" then 3" the rest of the way back. 3" directly off of a 2.5 housing has been known to cause turbulance which can cause back pressure to the turbo.

4.8t

i agree it is nice to have boost basically go right along with the throttle position. its nice to have that free 0 boost 0 vac part throttle power. because the turbo is spinning and providing air but not enough to feed more than the motor can consume by itself. so where use to you would have to be at full throttle to be at 0 vac you can now do it at 30-40% throttle. thats the case in my tahoe anyway.

as i said before the turbo has a p trim wheel with a .68 A/R t3 housing. at what point (power wise/rpm) does this housing on the this size turbine wheel become a choke point and not help power and just sky rocket manifold pressure?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Apology accepted. Regardless of how smart assy I may seem, I don't apologize for not making any assumptions; that way when information flows from you or me, there's no ambiguity and you can get straight to the **** faster rather than farting around all day trying to guess. All that does is waste time... time that you don't necessarily have.
Yes, I read that you had a T04R. No, no one else knew whether or not that was the only option you would consider. That doesn't mean that you didn't know other options, but we were not aware whether or not you knew the options., see the difference? We can't assume that this isn't your first rodeo. So we don't treat it as such.

Now that the nonsensical monkey business is out of the way, what you're putting together here isn't that new. It's good that you're able to have the resources to be able to put these builds together based upon the "book", you've made the assumption that people here will automatically think that 10.3:1 compression is high. Actually, that could be further from the truth and there is a consensus of that on this forum, so there's no need to worry about being chastised simply for that. That compression allows you to be more responsive in between shifts and allows the turbo to recover slightly more quickly despite its size.

In addition, using a T4 tangential housing for that T04R that you have is just not necessary for the power goals and use that you need, regardless of headwork. Neither is A2W intercooler. A2Ws are nice to have, but the only advantages that were ever seen were simply at the drag strip itself, and even then, rarely. It really acted more as a space concern in the engine bay for most individuals than any actual cooling benefit. That's what most of the books don't tell you. You may want to consider the fact that a separate reservoir and lines may attribute to cost and space concerns that you may not have addressed yet.

As a turbo designer that's been in the industry.. a little bit ;-), I would look at using a .63A/R P-trim T3 housing instead of even the .58A/R T4 open flanged, which is one of the smaller of the T4 line. At 74mm inducer (wheel dia.), there's really no need to go to the larger volutes to make that power effectively and quickly. IF you really think you'll be at the drag strip more, or plan to make more power, you can always go .82A/R T3. Either way, T4.. not needed.

Hope this clears things up a bit better. We are trying to help, just don't assume people are going to just come after you like a mob simply because you want to ask a question. This forum isn't easy to get through a lot of the times, but over time, the skin thickens and you get through all the mess to get at least a decent anser.

4.8t

for the record and i'm just throwing this out there cause it seems that it got missed. the last sentence in the OP says "Either way I will be using this turbo. I already have it so it's gonna get used."

Space and more so pipe routing are the two main reasons for the a2w cooler. water lines will be easier to route where i want them then the charge pipes. which means i can keep the charge pipes far from the hot side pipes. i planed on getting a large heat exchanger to try and keep things nice and cool. if it runs 10* over ambient while cruising as does my A2A on my tahoe, i will be happy. tahoe temps are from the actual intake manifold. then to knock them down even further will be the water meth.

i wanna say that my turbine housing as it sits in my garage is a .68 A/R open tang. i'll have to dig it out and read it just to be sure. from the way it sounds, i'll go ahead and run it and see what she does. i was just asking before i start because if it wouldn't flow enough i could trade it for free. the guy i bought my turbos from is a real cool guy. and being that the housing has not been used yet i can still swap it out with out cost. thats the main reason behind my post.

now when it comes to my wifes b series 2L with b16 head that i will be building, i'm deffinatly open for ideas. but that will be awhile. i still have to paint my car, put it all together. then strip hers down for paint and motor build.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

looks like you have a plan of action then... good luck to you.

4.8t

thanks for the help, i'll keep you in mind for a turbo on my wife's car.