wookiemaddness

Can anyone share experience on a t4 housing with a gt35r or 3076r both manifold and housing twin scroll. The smallest I have found for a t4 manifold is a housing that's 1.06. I'm wondering if the lag is to much to for a b20 bottom end and a b16 head. Both are built minus cams for the head. The bottom end is not sleeved but that's another thread. I'm just looking for actual user experience with twin scroll of theses turbos or even non divided housings for theses turbos. Thanks for the knowledge share.

TravisBiggie

I think itll be a little laggy. Buy a borg warner or holset instead of a garret ball bearing. Half the price and they spool like ball bearing turbos. I just bought a s363 myself.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

There's plenty of experience out there. You're looking at it this way because you're confusing a divided housing with a true twin scroll turbine housing that effectively divides exhaust pulses in small to medium framed turbochargers. The volutes on the sizes given for those turbine wheels are SOO large that you will experience a LARGE amount of lag, even with higher boost pressures. Considering what you build, you're best to stay T3 flanged and move on from there.

You want real twin scroll housings for particular results, look to the EFR series of Borg-Warner (which is even MORE expensive than the Garrett GT(X) series) or stay with a larger OEM unit.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Your turbine housing isn't twin scroll, it's simply divided which isn't the same thing at all.

t4 anything on a Honda motor, especially a gt35r

Garrett just released true twin scroll t3 and vband turbine housings for their gt turbine wheels but they aren't cheap, minimum of 500 dollars

ATP is the main reseller of these housings

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...egory_Code=NGH


and don't make a new thread about a topic then bump a sure old dead end thread at the same time. it serves 0 purposes and causes unneeded confusion.

Schister66

On an unrelated note, I wish someone would tell Sheepy that divided housings and twin-scroll housings are different. Every time i see an ad for his manifolds, its labeled "twin scroll" and then they show a divided turbine on some Garrett turbo. It bothers me, but i dont want to be 'that guy' and correct him

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

I nominate TheShodan to tell him.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

I'll tell him, after I tell him who he bought a few of his manifold jigs from lol.

I'm sure he knows but he uses it as a marketing tool.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

No different than when Full-Race used it as a Misnomer in 2004. I even think Sheepey knows, but is going by what is "understood" by the younger folks.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Yup, marketing is more important than correct terminology

riceball777

I have lots of real work experence with the setup you speak of.
i have the hta gt3582r with the t4 1.06 ar divided hot side with the fullrace t4 divided manifold on my evo 8

i love the twin scrool setup this thing spools super fast on my stock evo engine.

I use to have an open scroll t3 .63 gt3076r and this twin scroll 35r setup spools faster!!!

i can hit 20 psi by 4,000rpm in 3rd gear which is a few hundred rpm faster than my old gt3076 t3 .63 setup

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

A 4g63 is an entirely different animal than a Honda motor.

wookiemaddness

First let me say sorry for bumping a dead thread and creating this one I'll work on my firm etiquette. Can anyone actually explain to me what the difference is between true twin scroll and just divided manifold and turbo ? What am I missing?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

And we were able to make the T3 GT35HTA reach maximum pressure of 24psi by 3780rpms. We just used a better boost controller than what most Evolution guys use..

And BTW, you were still using a divided housing and not a "twin scroll" turbine housing. you fell for the same marketing ploy as the rest of the Evolution crowd.

ballistic1350

iTrader: (7)

What boost controller were you using?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

What you're missing is the fact that a true twin scroll has the turbine volute divided into two separate chambers throughout the volute, so that it properly separates the exhaust pulses to maximize exhaust energy flow. This is best used on small to medium sized turbochargers

An example


Mitsubishi Evolution example


Twin Scroll 3D image of Borg-Warner EFR housing



EFR 7670 Investment cast Twin scroll example



What Riceball and yourself are describing are divided housings, that are used on larger sized turbine volutes, in which the exhaust pulse is only split for about an inch or so down the volute. It then just opens up to a single volute like any other T4. This is so that it can assist with accelerating turbine wheel speed on applications that are normally VERY large, like truck and tractor applications. It only helps smaller engine applications at high boost pressures with 65mm and larger turbine wheels, but its not the same phenomenon entirely.

Here's what the divided housing cross-section looks like


Here's an example of description of just a divided housing.


But there is a downside


Garrett released a Ni-Resist cast twin scroll housing about a year ago. that is NOT what Riceball is running from FP.

FP divided Garret housing



New "true" twin scroll Ni-Resist Housing (Forget the v-band inlet, look at the internal volute and how it is completely divided)

riceball777

Thank you for explaining everything. Do you really think the divided housing on my Evo with the full race divided manifold is not helping spool. If so why does this spools faster than my old t3 open scroll .63ar hotside and why am I able to hit 20psi by 4,000rpm when normal stock block evos with standard .63ar t3 gt3582r's tend to not spool up or hit 20psi by about almost 5,000rpm.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Like I said in my previous statement. its a matter of how boost is controlled, and what boost pressure is used. For every person that's used a T4 divided FP housing saying they spooled faster than before, it was because they were running even more boost pressure to put it in its effective range.. Basically, on larger turbos, the higher the boost pressure, the easier it is to reach target boost. It was funny because each person that did that on an Evolution, I was able to get the T3 in just a slight better effective range to respond faster than a T4. I cause all kinds of havoc on EvolutionM because of that. Even my Evolution 8 responded in between gears faster in my Open T3 .63 than the T4 divided 1.06 I used. Turns out its just dyno numbers. Off the dyno, the T3 always responded faster.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

It helps slightly but it doesn't compare to how aatrue twin scroll housing performs.

the divided entry only keeps exhaust pulses separated for a short amount of time. with a twin scroll housing the pulses are separated until the exhaust exits the turbine wheel.

the divided housings were originally designed for large over-the-road diesel engines to improve exhaust scavenging and turbo performance where lots of low end torque was needed to move heavy loads.

ballistic1350

iTrader: (7)

In case you missed my question please and thanks

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

He uses a standalone Greddy profec B SPEC 2 boost controller

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Correct, which uses a MUCH nicer Denso Solenoid than that MAC Industrial version.

I started with the original Profec A in 1996 On another car.


My DSM had the first Profec B



Until last year I then had the Profec B Spec II on the turbo Integra



But now I'm using the newer one.

GReddy Profec

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

The profec a and the first b were a bitch to setup, as the fuzzy logic circuit had to learn the engine operation curve. which basically meant 4th gear wot pulls until it figured out what was going on.

I'm debating using the new profec on the civic, especially since I'll be using a fairly small turbine side for the power I'm making so I'll need a solenoid that can cycle rapidly and reliably. although I'm wondering if I could use the profec solenoid with the built in logic level boost control that the megasquirt 3 pro and my aem ems have.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Nope. We tried (at least on the AEM). Denso and MAC have different frequencies. That's why the Profecs have their own brain sensors that attach to the display.

The Profec A was a bitch. The first B was easy as pie. Easier than this MAC **** that's for sure.

The new profec has a new auto "gain" setting now. During your dyno session it figures out where "gain" is optimal for fastest spool-up over the older version where you had to kind of figure it out. I've got a few people using them on turbo B and K series engines with awesome results. The "logic" is much faster than 18 years ago.

Its amazing how folks try and re-invent the wheel and some of the best stuff has already been out. But because of people worrying about "fanboys" of Japanese products and their cost, Honda people avoided them while other turbo platforms embraced them.

ballistic1350

iTrader: (7)

I started a new thread about solenoids sorry for derailing this thread.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/lets-talk-electronic-boost-controllers-3210811/