sonno

Hello hello. I have a 94 del sol si, stock d16z6, and a spare garrett t3 turbo from a nissan 300zx vg30et. Of course, I thought, this should go on my sol. Ordered about 300 dollars worth of bits, all at good deals, from header to ecu programmer.

Now my problem. My rebuild kit came in and while popping out my one piece encapsulated carbon seal, I broke it. I cant find one without a full kit, and my rebuild kit came with a dynamic. What now? I'm in over my header, but refusing to tuck my tail and fork the 6-9 hundred to get someone else to do it for me, and skip learning how to rebuild t3s. It seems like a good skill to have.

Anyway, greetz, thanks, and I'll probably be around.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

You don't have a turbine balancer, and you don't have access to one. I guarantee you that. You need to send it off.

sonno

I suppose there's no reasonable way to rebuild a turbo without building a machining shop?

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Even your average machine shop can't do it. You need one very specific tool. The turbine shaft spins at something like 25,000 RPM at idle. At load, that number increases exponentially. This isn't like balancing a flywheel, or a wheel and tire. You need a very special, very specific, very expensive piece of hardware that spins that little tiny shaft and wheels at insane RPM's so it can be precision balanced.

If it isn't precision balanced, best case scenario you'll eat your bearings and seals, and need to rebuild it in short order. Worst case scenario, you'll eat the housing and throw little bits of metal in your motor, grenading it.

sonno

While that really, REALLY blows, I think you probably did save me from screwing myself worse than the cost of a rebuild kit. I guess I'll look for a replacement or rebuild shop. I really was enjoying the "I can do anything" feeling of diying it. Sadface.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Its ok. besides, rebuilding those would have sucked anyway, as the parts outside of OEM (which NISSAN doesn't even have) are hard to replace unless getting a knock-off replacement. Those IHI turbos used a ceramic bearing system. you weren't going to be able to replace that.

Time to find something more reasonable.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Sadly you cannot rebuild a turbo without having it rebalanced. pure turbos has every rebuild kit under the sun (that is their main business) and I know they have both carbon and dynamic seal t3 rebuild kits. they will also sell whatever component you need. just call them and tell them what happened and they'll send you a carbon seal.

they also offer cartridge balancing and VSR balancing. VSR is the best method but cartridge balancing gets the job done

call them and speak to the tech department, super cool guys that are all car people (every employee has a turbo car lol) and they will accommodate you any way they can.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

It's worth mentioning that there are also a couple turbos out there (and I mean "a couple" literally) that have individually balanced rotating assemblies. EVERY part, from the turbines down to the little tiny m6 nut that holds it all together, is individually balanced, so you can take it apart and put it back together again as many times as you want without worrying about it.

Downside: Those two (maybe three) turbos are stupidly old, stupidly rare, and stupidly worthless.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

I have component balanced turbos... they are balanced as a whole after assembly as well..

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Yes, they are, but the necessity isn't immediate, just best practice. They (at least, the ones I'm aware of) still aren't practical turbos, though.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

The gt/gtx series are component balanced then balanced as a whole on a VSR. For example my 2871r has had the turbine wheel, compressor wheel, and shaft nut all individually balanced then rebalanced as a whole.

turbos that get balanced on VSR machines are done so down to a "quivering needle" or around .5 grams at 50,000rpm. Most journal bearing turbos are fine being catridge balanced, it's not as precise or as fine as a VSR but journal bearing turbos don't need as precise of a balance as ball bearing turbos do. Mostly since ball bearing turbos don't really have a true thrust bearing like their journal counterparts.

my IHI uber turbo is the same way but we're talking about an inconel turbine wheel bigger than an ls stroke lol. that and it's a 1500 dollar investment to service the turbo but when you consider a replacement is 25,000 dollars when they were available then it's fairly cheap.

sonno

You guys have been more helpful than I expected. Thanks for that. I cant help but look at buying or diying a balancer. I guess just to be devil's advocate, according to this source http://www.theboostlab.com/services/turbo-balancing-facts.html , a simple machine balance is sufficient. Thoughts?

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

basically yes

machine balancing equals cartridge balancing.

Although technically a VSR (Vibration Sorting Rig) is a balancing machine but the way inbalance is detected and corrected is different between the two. also a VSR allows for much finer balancing but like I said before, a journal bearing turbo doesn't need as fine of a balance as ball bearing turbos.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

No, the balance is the same, its the tolerance clearance allowed that are different. much tighter tolerance with the Dual Ball-bearing turbos than journal bearing.

turbomaniac

you can find a used part and after you rebuilt the turbo you can send it to be balanced and pay only the cost of balancing...

do not install a not ballanced turbo, you will regret it....

IMO, do a market research and send your turbo to an expert..