AutoSol

I've got a T3/T4 Garett turbo (RevHard stag 2 kit). I'm considering switching to a supercharger setup, so I have some questions...

1) The reason I want a supercharger is because they produce less heat. Is this true? Can anyone give me a feel for how much less heat?

2) I have a B18B1 and I'm only looking to run mid 13's to low 14's. I'm at mid 14's now at 6psi and 149 ft/lbs of peak torque with the turbo. I know better traction would get me low 14's. Can a supercharger (say JRSC) produce this same kind of torque at 6-8psi?

3) In a friend car, they had a JRSC on a B18C5. I didn't even hear the supercharger spinning. Is that normal? I thought superchargers made a wind up noise (like my turbo does).

4) Does anyone have a supercharger for sale?

I like the turbo I have, but I don't think I'll ever use the full potential of the T3/T4. I plan to stick with the stock motor and only run 6-10psi anyway. I'd rather have something that produces less heat, because the maintenance is a hassle. I'll settle for a 14sec car, I think that's fast enough for the street.

Thanks!!

dustin

I hope you don't mean intake air temps... because the JRSC will put then through the roof... Turbo can be intercooled.

The JRSC will make your car slower. The problem with your car is the automatic transmission, not the turbo.

JRSC on b18c5 sucks...

If you already have the turbo system installed, just do yourself a favor and get a manual transmission... then you'll love the turbo again

EVIL CETANE

Hey dustin, How many JRSC have you installed on a B18C5? How many have you driven? and finaly, how did you come to that conclusion that a JRSC on a B18C5 sucks?

jinxproof99

well to back dustin, i had a jrsc w/ 8 lb pulley on a b18c1 in a hatchback. it was fun a mom/grandma kinda way. torque was decent, but crap on the highway. zero top end. dynoed 225 to the wheels and ran 13.2 on street tires. i can only imagine 6 lbs on a b18c5 being worse.....not better.

the idea of trading in a turbo for a jrsc just sounds silly to me. he will definetly go slower, not faster. lose the automatic whatever you do.


[Modified by jinxproof99, 3:08 PM 6/15/2002]

shadowdawn

I didn't get the JRSC for the reason I would make LESS power then I could with a turbo... I have auto 2. If you build up your auto: Torque converter, Bigger tranny fluid pump, tranny cooler... and mabye a PTS kit from http://www.levelten.com then you could be faster then most manuals and more consitant than them forever.... Its up to you.

My car pulls HARD when I hit the magic 3700rpm or so mark with a Rev hard stage 2 turbo, t3/t04e a/r compressor .53.... turbine (unknown)... Keep your turbo and rebuild your tq converter, upgrade your fuel system, pull the boost to 8-9psi and TUNE it cause they say the t3/t04e pulls MUCH stronger, in fact a world of difference between 6-7psi and 8-10psi..... just a thought.

Btw what psi and what were your exact dyno numbers?

jamal-188

I'm sure you could grab a manual tranny cheaper than building up your auto tranny, and it wold be way more fun to drive!!! Keep the turbo whatever you do!!

shadowdawn

Sure you can.... but you need alot more then just a transmission... the cost of ALL the parts and labor around here is $2500 from a trustworthy shop that will do the job RIGHT the first time. The cost of completly building your tranny with levelten is a few hundred cheaper... then again it depends where you are and shop prices etc.. either way doesn't matter for me I can't afford anywhere near either of those 2 options right now, so I'm dumping my money into a fully tuned fuel system (not standalone, just your usual afc, injectors, fpr fmu etc...).

GSteg

the JRSC can now be intercooled with jackson racing's new water-to-air intercoolers. there is a guy with a B18 engine and the JRSC with intercooler running 11psi of boost. on the track, he laid down a shattering 12.1 second. pretty impressive in terms of jackson racing superchargers. with the boost down to 8psi, it should run 13's-14's


[Modified by GSteg, 10:35 PM 6/15/2002]

Arturbo

AutoSol, please IM. I think I might live near you so maybe we can meet up and talk about this serious issue.

art

AutoSol

I meant underhood temperature, not intake temp. Yes, I know a JRSC would produce less power. I was only asking if a supercharger had the potential (say at 8psi) to produce enough power to run low 14's with a B18B1 and 2500lb car. And does the supercharger produce less underhood temperature? My thought was that less underhood temperature might reduce the wear on the auto tranny. It was just a thought, it might not make a difference at all...


Pre-turbo, my power was 122whp @ 6400rpm, 106ft/lbs at 5200rpm. Turbo with 0.4 BAR (~5.8psi) is 172whp @ 6600rpm, 149ft/lbs at 4600rpm. Stock B18B1, untuned. Ran 14.7 @ 96mph, 2.3sec 60'.


shadowdawn: I already had my converter rebuilt by Level10, and I used their PTS kit. After being rebuilt, the tranny only lasted two weeks before it stop going into gear entirely. Their PTS "kit" is a JOKE! Don't buy it. Its exactly the same clutch plates, gaskets, and o-rings as any standard tranny rebuild kit, just twice the price because their name is on it. As for the converter -- I've shipped mine back to Level10, and they're gonna look at it. Level10 DOES NOT do valve body upgrades for the Integra auto (despite what their webpage says). So I'll try talking to Art Carr now instead of Level10. I think Level10 is a joke. Their web page SAYS that their auto tranny rebuild for an Integra is the same as the Civic -- like $2500. But NO, they charge about $1000 more for the Integra auto. That's after shipping the tranny to them. And they won't guarantee their work.

You all might be right, there is no hope with the automatic. How do the Mustang/Camaro's run 12's and 13's in their automatics?

I also have a Fluidyne radiator and external Hayden tranny cooler. No special tranny fluid pump. Heat has to be what's killing the auto, not the power. If Level10 finds a problem with the converter and honors their name by rebuilding it RIGHT, then I'll try building my automatic one more time... And I'll go with a better tranny cooler and some synthetic transmission fluid.


BTW, yeah, building an automatic is hella expensive. But damnit, I wanna be unique I already have the RC 440 injectors, Hondata, and Profect B, but I'm not installing them until I trust the transmission will hold the power. If it can't, well, guess I have to do the 5spd swap. But I'm telling you guys, boost with the automatic is more fun than you might think!!




[Modified by AutoSol, 9:00 PM 6/15/2002]

Captain Save-a-Hoe

That intercooler was custom, I wish Jackson made an intercooler.

Arturbo

If you get a digital temp gauge and measure underhood temps on a turbo car Vs. a stock car(or even with header, exhaust etc), you will find that that they are damn near close if not the same. The only reason people think its hotter is because the turbine housing is pushed futher away from the block closer to the fans. And people start mealting stuff only because the heat source is closer to the thing its melting.
I have yet to melt a thing under my car. I think high intake temp if more dangerous than under hood temp and the JRSC has alot of hot intake temp. The intercooler that was done was a custom job. And it took alot of work, and that is why JR never did finish with the product.

If you were to compare my intake temp at wot 110deg vs the JRSC @ 160+deg. I think sonny posted the hondata log that showed at 6psi the intake temp were really up there. That is why they run very low timing.

I say, you've already got a turbo keep it and work with it. Get a tranny swap..

art

SIK IN DA HED

dustin

I've seen.. oh dozens, of JRSC B18C5s that made under 200whp.

Dustin

Blown90hatcH

*Me not going to say anything*

not so civic

yeah steve...i.m art. he'll be able to help you out. and art, he does need help with some stuff. i would help him and he was going to fly me out to texas. he needs someone local who knows their stuff.

shadowdawn

Nice!!!

Rboosted717

iTrader: (1)

nuff said:

My '98 type R with stock internal B18C5 engine with JRSC @ 8psi of boost on 91 octaine. Ran a 12.5 with it misfiring down the track (bad sparkplugs). When dyno'd with it misfiring the power was at 230whp and 145trq. After swaping the plugs high 11's to low 12's since the power would be at 264whp and 168trq vs. 230whp and 145trq.


[Modified by Rboosted717, 12:55 PM 6/16/2002]

shadowdawn

Nice :D, did you lower compression? have amazing tuning? fuel setup? anything I forget to ask....

Captain Save-a-Hoe

I hate when peeps act like JRSC suck. They make good power and are good for daily driving. I use my car for my work car, almost like delivering pizza and its held up for two years on 8lbs of boost and it ran 12.6. All I had was a BTM and a fuel pump, I didn't even have any band aid stuff either. Im rebuilding motor soon and I hope it'll last another few years.

SiRkid

i call bs..no way you made that much power on 8psi itr jrsc..
my friend has an itr with one right now.basic kit.car runs WORSE than stock...hes getting a hondata so it will run much better but NO WAY he will make 264 whp.

Arturbo

Its not BS. Mike did make that power. Thats what you get out of good tunning and getting rid of some of the band aids. Good job mike..

art

SiRkid

i dunno..it seems high... if he did that , then great job..but it just doesnt add up to me..whats the cfm for it?

Rboosted717

iTrader: (1)

lol, sure call BS to it. Just look at my past 1700+ posts which 95% of them are about the JRSC. Also notice the dyno run number? yeah 108!!!!! I've done 108 dynoruns on my car and have tested every product and every setup possible on my car. I've had the JRSC since '99 and have tried everything.
Call BS to it all you want, however almost everyone who knows me or who has read my stuff knows I'm for real.
And yes thats on a stock motor with the JRSC at 8psi. Compression= stock, everything stock inside. The only mod thats in the engine is a ACT clutch with stock flywheel, Ti- retainers, and cam gears. Outside that is the normal JRSC stuff. JRSC, kami headers, test pipe, 3" thermal, stock fuel pump (not even a JR one), 440cc injectors, chipped ECU, intank, and I think thats it. Oh yeah on 91 octaine. My drag times prove my power, as with the word of almost every JRSC person, type R person, etc... here on honda-tech and on hostboard.

As for your friend, if it runs like crap, then why is he at 8psi? If you can't tune it well and it runs bad, why raise the boost! lol Kinda stupid IMO.
And no he probally will not hit my power, few have and few will. I only know of 2 other JRSC R's that hit high numbers. Mine, cetene's, and scouters (removed now). Most hit in the 200-235whp area with 8psi or even 10psi before blowing up.
The reason I hit so high is all in the tuning. Yes the Hondata will help a lot, however you gotta know how to tune it because it won't get you past 215whp unless you know how to tune.
Check out my old site regarding JRSC type R's. Your frind might find some stuff on it. Yeah the info is old, however now that its summer I will try to add TONS and TONS of data I have.
http://www.geocities.com/superchargedtyper

If you want movies of my dynoruns, more dynoplots, references, timeslips, etc... just ask rather then saying I'm full of BS. I'm more then happy to show any pictures needed of the engine, movies, dynoplots, timeslips, etc... to better help you.


[Modified by Rboosted717, 5:10 PM 6/17/2002]

chri5

It not BS, but it is certainly NOT your typical ITR w/ JRSC power.