EagleII

Ok, heres the deal. Just bought a 2002 Civic SI. I like the power but I want more I would like to just bolt on the turbo / super charger on to the stock engine. Finances dictate that I will commute in the car also. No drag racing just open road / auto cross against the clock.

threatcon13

stock engine...autocross......=supercharge.

fsp31

>>stock engine...autocross......=supercharge.<<

I gotta disagree. At autox national's this year, out of 10 Civics in Street Mod, 3 (including mine) weren't boosted. It was like bringing a knife to a gunfight. That's why I'm on the FI forum now. All of them were turbo but one which had a Vortech SC (HART sponsored civic hatch). Vortech SC = BIG BUCKS and a lot of lag in this car's case.

With stock compression on a low boost (5-8 psi) turbo system you'll experience very little lag. But IMO, one of the most compelling reasons to go turbo is heat. A typical autox run is too long. With a supercharger, your charge temps will get incredibly high unless you have some sort of intercooler. High charge temps = detonation and loss of hp. By the time you've bought a JRSC or Vortech supercharger kit, and some sort of decent SC intercooler, you could have an *awesome* turbo system. Hell, you could have a pretty good one at half that price...

Full-Race Geoff

turbo is superior in every way. If you have an SC argument i do enjoy hearing it. A properly designed turbo system will out perform a somewhat properly designed SC kit (cant exactly change blowers out for the perfect one) all day, every day.

tony1

Supercharger is better, that's why all the fast guys run them

-iLLuZioN-B18C1

i love your sarcasm

Tofurky

but i thought 40 hp for $3000 was a good deal....????

EagleII

This is what I am thinking so far, and any input is welcome.

When you super charge, the boost comes relativley instantly from the RPMs of the engine. It is powered direcly from the engine. Dis-advantage, robs a little horspower because it loads the engine down with friction from beeing mechanically driven. This is hopefully offset by the increase airflow / fuel flow into the engine.

Turbo. Needs Higher RPM to "kick in" however, turbos draw there power from the flow of wasted exhust. But they still need to spin up.

Grrr. I need to find a good website that shows some good power curves of turbo vs supercharge. I think because of the fast reving of the small 4 cylinder that in turbo form it may produce a very similar peak power. still thinking.

Maybe I should just buy lots of chrome. Chrome has made cars go really fast for a long time

threatcon13

LoL ok. i just remember hearing, from this board in fact...that the lag would be bad for xcross...and wouldnt be able to stay in the power band or something. iobviously i was wrong. thanks 4 your kind comments. i guess if the autocross kings have spoken , then u kno the answer.

tony1

Well, if you want boost with little lag it's as easy as a properly setup turbo. If you are only looking to make 30-40whp like a vortech sc. does than you can get a very small turbo. The turbo on an audi tt will hit 1 bar. by just reving the car in neutral. That thing spools almost instantly. It's all about setting up the car for the application.

mos

If you get a small turbo it wont "kick in" at high rpm. It will kick in at low rpm.

SiRkid

i htink tony knwos what hes talking about...his car doesnt run 8's or anything.

threatcon13

MoBlack

huh? no load and it hits 1 bar?

tony1

Yup, no load. When you're in gear the thing hits full boost by like 2k rpm. It's pretty fun to drive that way!

EagleII

Thanks for all the input. Sounds like theres a reason why turbos seem to be more available. Ok, not that I have completely decided on turbo, but I'm deffinatley leaning that way now. With that in mind, who has the best bolt on solution. What I mean by that is, It fits, no major cuttiing or drilling. documentation is thorough(so a monkey can put it in). And either the fuel delivery system comes with it or works with original. Same with the computer. O and here is the depressing kicker... I live in california, am I going to have to take this thing off every 2 years for smog?

tony1

Unfortunately for you, there's not much available for your car yet. I'm sure greddy will come out with something that will be carb legal and will be a complete bolt on kit. As for right now, custom is the only way to go. Find a reputable shop with a good fabricator and have a top notch kit made. By going this route you can choose all of the components used in the kit and probably have a much better performing kit. Of course it won't be carb exempt though.

EagleII

You are right, It looks like it will need to be custom or wait. I'm gonna go e-mail greedy right now and tell them to hurry up and make me a turbo! I hate waiting.

fredtoast

I did a lot of research when I was deciding how to boost my 98 ITR. I can't cite you my references because it has been a while, but the general consensus seemed to be this: For low boost a supercharger was the answer. They are simpler to install and maintain, and there is no lag. But for high boost a turbocharger is the way to go. Since you're not building a drag racer I would suggest a supercharger.

One more thing to consider. If you plan on increasing boost in the future (and let's face it, everyone does) a turbo is much cheaper to dial up.

I chose the Jackson Racing supercharger, and I love it. But I'm not going to trash turbos. I think a lot of people have problems with boost because they don't spend the money or take the time needed to set them up properly. Good luck.

GraphiteAccord

you can easily build a turbo kit that will spool just as fast or faster then a JRSC. key to it? put on a smaller turbo.

GhostSI

Vortech SC only puts out 40 Hp? Is this non-aftercooled or aftercooled? I thought the aftercooler kit was Air-Water? Maybe i am wrong? When i was at Fontana, i witnessed a vortech si run 13.8 on slicks w/ a crv pully. Btw, i am new to this forum.....

David

fsp31

>>Vortech SC only puts out 40 Hp? Is this non-aftercooled or aftercooled? I thought the aftercooler kit was Air-Water? Maybe i am wrong?<<

The HART (honda american racing team) Civic that I saw at autox Nationals was making a claimed 300 hp to the wheels with the Vortech on a B16A2 and CTR cams. It had some serious lag issues (and traction issues) though. But it looked like it had every bit of 300 hp when it finally had enough space to spool up once or twice during the entire competition. One of the drivers took a 9th place trophy in it, but he is *damn* good. The codriver finished almost dead last.

I don't know if this is a typical result for a Vortech SC or not since that's the only one I've seen. To me, the car behaved as if it had a big turbo. Much too big for autox. And don't those things cost around $4000? Know what kind of sweet turbo kit a lot of folks could build for 4 grand?

Also, the engineer wannabe in me has a hairy eyeball on that driveshaft that runs across most of the engine bay.

FFgaeson

christ whenever i hear the words honda and supercharge i instantly vomit

how many people have to waste their money on sc before you guys realize these things are just **** for hondas...

turbo gives you an unlimited amount of possibilitys from tame to timid...

there is absolutely no reason to run otherwise. and if someone starts talking about LAG this laptop is going in the goddamn press and im crushing it.

EagleII

Ok, comment heard. but which turbo would you suggest that would simply bolt on with little to no other mods neccesary?

Loco Honkey

*edit- I'm retarded. Someone already answered the question. to me.


[Modified by House of Boost, 11:15 PM 11/26/2002]