bigwig

The super 60=$290

The T3/T40B=$350

Both are rebuilt w/ 0 miles. and have a 90 day warranty

Im looking for about 250-275whp and mid 13s on street tires....which would you buy

car is in the sig.


Modified by bigwig at 11:20 AM 9/30/2003

R6Elmo

So not going for the domestics?? Welcome to wanting turbo!!

T3/t4B gets my vote. Yoru power goals aren't really that crazy or high.

bigwig

yea...i was pissed b/c i realized i fucked myself over about not just buying that greddy kit...but **** that kid...he doesnt deserve my $1100...ill make a kick *** kit that the boost wont just stop at 6000rpm...

i still say 95 Z28's are the best $5k domestic car to buy. and they kick ***...

TurboJesse

either will work for your goals...i know there is a member (forgot name) who made like 280-290 @14psi i think with a t3 super 60 on a b18b.

bigwig

14psi is too much boost...im gonna buy the T3/T4B...i can boost lower and get the same hp...thanks for the input...next step...buy a manifold.

TurboJesse

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bigwig &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">14psi is too much boost...im gonna buy the T3/T4B...i can boost lower and get the same hp...thanks for the input...next step...buy a manifold.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Care to tell me how boost will damage your engine yet power won't?

danl

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mpir3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Care to tell me how boost will damage your engine yet power won't?</TD></TR></TABLE>


LOL, so true.

bruthaboost

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mpir3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Care to tell me how boost will damage your engine yet power won't?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Quite true. Think in terms of hp. Unless the psi is outside the efficiency range of the turbo and the limits of pump gas, boost is not the limiting factor.

0project dc2

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mpir3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">either will work for your goals...i know there is a member (forgot name) who made like 280-290 @14psi i think with a t3 super 60 on a b18b.</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats me .. and it was actually 11 psi. my boost gauge was off by 4 psi i swapped to a ghetto but WORKING OBX boost gauge i have. right now its 14 psi on a B20. the T3 super 60 was perfect for the LS motor, pulled all the way to redline and beyond and i made 272 WHP and 223 troque. somethign went wrong with tha tmotor so i now have a b20, with 14 psi, 262 WHP and 254 torque @ 5500 RPM, the turbo is my bottle neck now with the extra .2 liters. i think if i were to do it all over again .. i MIGHT get the T3/t4 but for a street kit my car kicks *** .

Ri5e

Want a good manifold? Try http://www.lovefab.com

hybridcrx

don't waste your money on the t3/t4. The super 60 will handle 10 or 11 psi fine on a 1.8 liter. Trust me. I have been looking at compreesor maps for about 2 days straight now. Plus, you will save money and have have better spool up.

civperc

the straight T3

Unsung

By the prices and the description, you are looking to buy from "down2turbo" on ebay. The Super 60 he sent me does not match the picture in his ad. Look here....

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=621664

I shipped it back to him and he's sending me the T3/T4, but I have a feeling this too isn't going to be as pictured / described.

danl

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybridcrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">don't waste your money on the t3/t4. The super 60 will handle 10 or 11 psi fine on a 1.8 liter. Trust me. I have been looking at compreesor maps for about 2 days straight now. Plus, you will save money and have have better spool up.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, that turbo will work well at 16 psi in the mid 200whp range. If you support it well 22 psi and well over 300whp on a 2 liter motor really is a great possibility. I have a friend with a super 60 compressor wheel on his 2g talon tsi with good supporting mods and he is making in excess of 300whp.

vtec.dc2

basically, smaller turbo you just have ot turn up the boost to match larger turbos..

smaller turbos don't push as much volume per psi as larger turbos.

bigwig

i kind of disagree w/ all of you...if i get the T3 then i will have to use 93-94 octane gas b/c my boost will have to be higher...if i get the T3/T4...even though im spending more money...ill save on gas b/c i can run 91 octane and my boost will be lower which i would rather b/c lower boost=less pressure on the turbo and then it will last longer...and 22psi on a talon is a big difference between 22psi on a Honda motor....16psi on the T3 will put me far over mid 200whp....

but on the otherhand if i just boost 11psi like the post above...i can get right in my goal....hmmm which one makes more torque? that will be the deciding factor...


Modified by bigwig at 4:24 PM 9/30/2003

0project dc2

iTrader: (1)

all i can say is i love my powerband how it is ... its SHCCWeet .. but i do long for a T3/t4 at times .. but hey !! i get my power sooner and i dont have to rev as high as a lotta guys to gain their power.

hybridcrx

You'll have to use 93-94 octane???? Where does this logic come from? At 11 psi...hell, even all the way to 15 psi, you are still withing the compressor efficiency rating on a super 60 t3. And why do you have to boost more on the smaller turbo? Put some reasons behind these thoughts and maybe I can understand you better. I think you're gonna be suprised though. If both compressors are working well within their efficiency ranges, then you can run the same boost on either turboand get the same results.

bruthaboost

If you are sweating gas prices, I suggest you don't go turbo. What's the price dif? .20c. If you fill up every week with a 11 gallon capacity it'll cost you around 120 extra a YEAR. That's about 32 cents a DAY. Gas is one of the cheapest things in your turbo setup.

TurboJesse

Based on your other threads i think you should just get the camaro and keep it real with 87 oct if you wanna be cheap.

Johnyquest

Stick with the T3. Your theory is flawed. The super 60 will definately be efficient at like 12psi on your motor (remember, these turbos came of motors that were 2.2L +) and with a good IC it will be a much better match for your goals than a t3/t4. Remember... t3/t4 is not a godsent, there is compromise-- you WILL see more lag, and therefore less USEABLE power especially when your goals are &lt;300hp. You need to understand that a t3/t4 is a great turbo when your using it to it's potential, but will hurt you down low when your HP goals are not rediculous. In retrospect, we (the little guys) are buying too many big turbos and running stupid low boost. NOBODY should be boosting 7psi on a huge turbo. It's much more efficient (and much smarter) to use a smaller turbo and run higher boost, because it will spool up much sooner, and therefore produce more area under the curve, which will in turn make the car more powerful down low and more streetable, as well as faster in general. If people with VW 1.8t's can make 300 hp @22 or whatever psi with a turbo that's no bigger than a dougnut, AND have boost come on at 2000rpms, alot of us have the wrong idea here. We need engine management that can support smaller turbo's with high boost (hondata,uberdata), so our kick in the pants doesn't only come on at 5000+rpms. I personally am really happy with the power my straight volvo t3 puts out on my civic, and at 12 psi it's really sick. A super 60 would make amazing power on your setup, especially if you have the engine management to use the turbo as it was meant to be used. With 12-18lbs of boost on that turbo, your car would be pretty sick. Good luck!

TurboJesse

you make some good points, but a small, ie volvo t3 is too small for b-series IMO. Also i personally do not want my power coming on @2000rpm, it will do nothing but spin the tires...

StyleTEG

You should base it on compressor maps.

I have really found that 8 - 14psi a T3 Super 60 is great for b18b's.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
B18B engine is 1834cc
which is 112ci

112 x 7000 / 3456 = 226.85 cfm (what the engine flows)
now w/ volumetric effeciencey
226.85 * .85 = 192.82 cfm @ 85% VE @ 7000rpm

(CFM * .069 = lbs. of airflow at that rpm)
192.82 * .069 = 13.3 lbs. of airflow at 7000rpm.

now to find out how much airflow there is on a B18B with 8psi of boost at 7000rpm

(R x D x 0.5 x V x B) / 1728
R = max RPM
D = displacement in CI
V = Natural volumetric efficiency of the motor
B = absolute atmosphere pressure + boost

8 psi = 8 + 13.3 = 21.3 / 13.3 = 1.60 pressure ratio

(7,000 x 112 x .5 x .85 x 1.6) / 1728 = 308cfm @ 7000rpm @ 8psi of boost

308 / 14.285 = 21.5lbs/per min @ 8psi

X 21.5
Y = 1.6



Ends up right on the boarder of peak effeciency for this compressor map, which is great because it just falls out of efficency as I reach redline.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

You can redo the math for any amout of boost you want.

Distorted

I'm not gonna quote it, but the equation above is on the ball. I'd suggest getting a T3 Super60. Like was said, the logic that bigger turbos with lower boost will save you gas is wrong. You'll loose usable power. You can have a big turbo, 300whp, and a less powerful car with more USEable power will destory you. I'm only restating this because you should always be considering this when designing a motor, no point in doing it twice because you didnt have all the info. Now, the T3/4 will be a Better turbo for a 1.8 if you want to do certain things with it. The amount of lag you'll experience will be minimal in comparison to the Super60, but noticable. Your not making a big enough jump(like T3 - T66) to impact the spool stageringly. You wont need as much boost to make the same power, but if you plan on keeping it at a low boost for the same power a T3super60 could easily produce, your inefficiently using the turbo. I run a T3super60 on my SOHC 1.6 and get amazing spool(i also run an open downpipe to increase flow). I'm converting it into a T3/4xx within the next weeks, mainly because The added power IS usable in my RPM range. Quick spool is great, it also can lead to wheel spin, which is useless outside of a wicked smoke show. The added spool time of the T3/4 is popular for traction reasons on top of peak power in the higher gears. I'd suggest starting the the T3super60 and see if it works for you. The higher boost will be fine seeing as the T3/4 wil lpush that much more air volume, possibly, pushing it out of efficeincy. If you need more later, its relatively inexpensive to Convert($600 roughly).

DC2R714

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bigwig &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i kind of disagree w/ all of you...if i get the T3 then i will have to use 93-94 octane gas b/c my boost will have to be higher...if i get the T3/T4...even though im spending more money...ill save on gas b/c i can run 91 octane and my boost will be lower which i would rather b/c lower boost=less pressure on the turbo and then it will last longer...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Uh with comments like this I would definitely sell and get a camaro or research a little more about turbos and hondas.