mybuildb18c

OK kind of just wanting to know what power it should make. Also whats a good turbo for my engine
Its a
JDM b18c Type R
Bored by Dan Benson to 84mm (2.0)
B18B blueprinted balanced Ls crankshaft with b16 Tri coated rod bearings (89mm) stroke
CP 9.5:1 compression pistons
Manley Turbo Tuff Rods(arp2000 rod bolts)
All ACL race bearings
Main cap bolts have been services for freely moving the crankshaft
Port matched and polished Type R Vtec head
.5mm oversized Intake SuperTech Valves
.5mm oversized Exhaust SuperTech Valves
Blox Stage 2 turbo camshafts. (forgot the amount of lift it produces)
Supertech dual valve springs and titanium retainers
Supertech Oem keepers
Bronze Valve Guides
Msd blaster coil SS
Msd 10mm spark plug wires
Msd cap and rotor
Skunk2 Pro Intake manifold
Alpha 70mm throttlebody
Aem High Flow Fuel Rail
FIC 2150cc Injectors

Turbo ive yet to decide or picked one up. thinking garrets gtx3582r, gt40, gt42, or precision PTE- 6266, 6466, 6766 Will be Dual ball bearing turbo. OR The twin scroll route just unsure what as of now.

Looking to 7-1000 hp. I know it could be possible I followed steps from 1000hp Over Bseries guide book. Could be wrong with different brand parts. any help would be great and what it would possibly range in power in this build

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

You'll make whatever power the turbocharger is capable of handling. Your parts seem.... reasonable except for the camshafts and you have no additional spark amplifier (the external coil does no good if you don't have the ignition box to amplify the actual spark)
Pick either 700-850whp, or 1000whp. Because they will be 2 completely different turbochargers and flanging systems for it.

The turbine housing nomenclature that you're so desperately looking for is divided housing. Not a "twin scroll". There is a HUGE difference between the two in terms of construction.

As for Turbocharger, everyone knows my preference; stick to the Garrett-based products or Borg-Warner based products. Don't skimp on the additional equipment needed to make them reliable. (water liens, proper restrictor fittings, flanges, etc).

extremeracer

x 2

Those BC "Turbo" Cams will hold you back, go for something lile GSC T1, Kelford T or good 'ol Skunk2 Pro 1 cams instead.
Make sure you at least have CP's Upgraded .190 pin or their Extreme Duty pin if you serious about 900+hp and change out the ARP 2000's to CA625 or L19 rod bolts.

I'd suggest you go for a ~80 lb/min turbo, which will allow over 700whp whilst not sacrificing too much powerband. Something along a 64 to 67mm new generation turbo should do the trick (BW S300 SX-E or 8374 EFR, PTE 6466 or 6870, Garrett GTW or GTX3584RS)

The Shodan offers some pretty trick Garrett based turbos in this range, so you can look at those too.

LightningTeg

Might want some valve train thats a bit better then supertech.

AZ_CIVIC

iTrader: (1)

I have tried many turbos and combinations, so far I would say as far as power and performance Precision hands down. I was running the Garrett GTX 67mm turbo and was able to get a 9.52 but only was able to get about 850whp out the turbo. I just switched over to a similar sized Precision turbo and just ran a PB of 8.93. I didn't even dyno the car after the switch, just swapped the turbo put the new Precision on and Joe played with the tune at the track.

I cannot speak longevity because I have only ran the one event so far.

DC-2uned

It really depends on budget and what you expect from the turbo in terms of response vs top end power when talking this family of wheel/housing sizes.

From what I have seen from 1st and 3rd party perspective...

Precision turbos really do have great comp wheel design, letting them flow a substantial amount of lbs/min relative to their wheel size. In general, their wheels put out the most power for a given size. Their reliablity over the years has come into question(possibly because of such constant high shaft speeds/flowing massive amounts of air with no watercooling, just a theory) ...I've seen them last for a couple years at 30+psi and others never make it off the dyno at moderate boost. The price used to be a bargain but is pretty evenly matched now with Garrett and Borg Warner with the "Gen 2" line intro.

If Precision go 6266, 6466 or 6870 depending on your max goal because all fall in the range you provided

Borg Warner, specifically the "EFR" line are great when it comes to transient response due to their "Gamma -Ti" turbines which have a lower weight per amount of material used vs traditional wheels. They also have great packaging with a Bypass-Valve(BOV) and IWG engineered right into the housing. Their downside is in most cases the highest price per given size because of all that's included and also their overall size making install/maintenance more difficult because of all that is included. Another possible downside is in certain race classes "exotic material turbines" aren't allowed and Gamma-Ti might fall under that classification. If this is the case, look into their SX-E line which is a "2nd gen" of sorts in itself based off their tried and true s300sx line

If Borg: The 8374, 9174 and 9180 would be your options from the bottom of your power range almost up to the top. The real standout though is the 9174, it has 74 spool and 91 power. Their results have been great and the EVO guys love them. If SX-E go s362, s364, s366 or s368sx-e which are equivalent from 8376 to 9180 comparatively.

Garrett, the old faithful Honeywell, IMO still the most reliable overall. Their new "Gen 2" line is supposed to be the next best thing since sliced bread but I dont know if they have lived up to all that just yet. The new gtx3076r gen 2 supposedly flows enough air for 750 or about 75lbs/min. The maps dont show them flowing over 75lbs and I've yet to see someone break 700whp with one so only time will tell. But regardless, I would say the gen2 gtx3582r, gtx3584rs, gtx4088r and gtx4294r are your options.

If Garrett, I would go gtx3584rs because its really All-New from the comp wheel, turbine wheel and both housings which are all exclusive to just this turbo. It's the most advanced design all around that Garrett offers, so it spools like a big gt30/small gt35 but surpasses the flow of the older 4088.

All these options have billet wheels, ball bearing and are available with v-band in/out turbine housings. Only the Borgs have a BOV/BPV incorporated and even if they come with an internal wastegate, at these power levels, I'd recommend going external for more consistent boost control and maximum flow. Also the Borgs and Garrett are mandatory water-cooled, while Precision s can be oil only with a water option(I think the option was added, at first it was oil only, period.)

So I'd say it's really pt6466 vs bw efr9174/s366sx-e vs gtx3584rs. Let your wallet, visual pleasure and review-reading skills be your guide.

extremeracer

Good informative post, on that note about the Gen 2 GTX series turbo's I have a question that I hope The Shodan can weigh in on.

Am I correct in saying that the Gen 2 GTX still use the same circa GT series turbine wheels (with the exception of the new GTX3584RS). If this is the case, is Garrett not creating mismatches by pairing even greater flowing compressor wheels with flow limited turbine wheel sizes and designs in an attempt to "woo" customers with marketing tactics ?

Case in point the GTX3076 (G1), it was shown that although the new compressor wheel provided substantially increased flow rate (~60 lb/min vs ~ 53 lb/min) the GT30 turbine wheel couldn't support the higher flow rate and was still capped at 540'ish hp. This then prompted Garrett to release a GTX3576R to take advantage of the additional flow. Now we have a Gen 2 GTX3076 which flows even more at ~65 lb/min but does it still use the same flow limited GT30 turbine wheel ?

On the GTX35 Front, the new Gen 2 wheel flows over 80 lb/min which is an even greater increase. Can the GT35 turbine wheel support this flow rate, as the GTW range paired larger turbine wheels with their high flowing compressor designs ?

Very interested to get your take on this.

mybuildb18c

Alright all the parts listed I have already bought and installed. So about the Blox Stage 2 turbo camshafts is that a NO go or would that be ok? For a fuel pump im running a Walboro high flow 485lph pump e85 compatible sounds ok. What MSD box would I need and is it necessary? for turbo you guys have me thinking about the GTX3584RS and pte 6466 or 6870. I don't know much about borg warner so I don't know about their turbos. what should I do for safety precautions on this build. This is my first Fully built engine. I got about 10-12 grand in on this already. If you look up the brand and prices for all the parts and the engine costed me about 2grand itself. Thanks for the quick reply. Ill get a Picture up of the engine here tonight or tomorrow

mybuildb18c

How do I Upgrade my fuel lines also. Just replace the lines from the Fuel filter with bigger stronger lines straight to the fuel rail without a fuel filter and is that the only line I need to up grade. how about the one on the FPR or the one underneath the car????

AZ_CIVIC

iTrader: (1)

I think the biggest thing to recognize is that you can't build a car for 700 and want 1000. You can build your car for a 1000 and run it at 700 if you want but there is a big difference between 700 and 1000. If you want a 1000whp a stock trans, an upgraded synchro trans or even a Liberty Face plated trans will not cut it at all. If you want to run 1000whp and actually utilize the power you will need a real gear set for the car like PPG or other dog box setups. Fuel system, a 1000whp will require a lot more than 700, when I was running 700whp I decided to ditch all stock fuel lines, fuel tank and run dual 044's and at the time 4 ID2000 Injectors. Once I crossed the 850whp and got close to the 900whp mark I started running out of intercooler efficiency and injector. I had to move to an 8 injector setup, bigger intercooler setup as well and of course a bigger turbo to get to that 1000whp mark. I also at the 700whp level went from a Liberty Face Plated trans to a PPG gearset, I also realized that Hondata would not get me where I wanted especially if I wanted to utilize every bit of my power so I moved to Motec.

Some advice I got from my tuner was think long term goals so you don't have to do things two or three times. Understandably long term goals especially if they are big also cost big but I myself would have saved a bunch of money if I followed on some of that advice. For example I threw money at the Liberty Face Plated gear set because I knew that it would suffice my short term goals, however as I made more power and started breaking those gears and paying for replacements and having to pull everything apart etc. In the long run it would have been cheaper to just go with the PPG setup from the beginning.

This is where you have to really decide long term goals, if you truly feel you will never go beyond 700whp build the car for that power level but if you have any little slice of wanting more, do things once and it will save headaches and the wallet from going completely empty LOL.

mybuildb18c

well the build and parts was tested and rated over 1000hp, but I am looking for around 7-850 and not max it up to high just to be safe. Money is not a problem right now, but If I can save money but still buy good parts that's the route I wanna go in.

I want to build my transmission with all the goodies, wheres good site or somewhere where I can get this information. Please reply in experienced. Thank You

mybuildb18c

What intercooler size should I get to hit that 7-850 or more mark and size of intercooler pipe. its going on a EK civic hatch

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

You need to head to the Drag Racing forum and check out what transmissions are being used on certain applications. You can also go to several of the drag racer's shops and see what they're using as options. Choosing a turbo is hard enough to help as it is. To build and go through transmission stuff? C'mon, you have to do a bit of your own legwork for that, my friend.

Size is only part of the equation. Please learn about intercoolers and how fin/plate designs combined with surface area make the difference. *Hint* Stick with Garrett or ETS cores *Hint*

https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced...3074553/page3/

mybuildb18c

mybuildb18c

extremeracer

• Cams are a NO Go > Use one of the options we suggested
• Stock fuel lines are a NO Go > Upgrade to braided lines with AN fittings
• Stock ignition system is a NO Go >> Your choice here depends on your ECU and budget. T1 trigger with M&W is a great option or the Mallory digital option like the Shodan recommends. Hondata CPR is another option
• 1 x Walboro 450 will just get to 700whp (pending on setup and will most likely reach its limit before 700) >> 2 x 044 with - 8 lines going forard and Y-fitting is a better bet

The other guys have given you some good advice with regards to Transmission options. Speak to or go visit some of the Honda drag shops closest to you, Speedfactory sells and uses Albins, Dynamic Performance sells and uses PPG, some racers use G Force. Those are the 3 most popular options.

AZ_CIVIC

iTrader: (1)

I would also use an ATI crank pulley, high horsepower applications and stock crank pulleys usually equals destroying oil pumps.

1000 wheel horsepower will most likely mean getting four more injectors, especially if you plan on running ethanol.

I run a PPG trans with Liberty Billet Case and it is a real solid trans. I know guys who have used Albins, Liberty and gforce all choose PPG. Contact Joe at Locash Racing and he can get you setup with a PPG gearset, these come from Australia.

mybuildb18c

I will do all of this for sure. Could I use the MSD 6 or 7 al ignition box. Ill be using a Hondata S300 V3. I don't understand the fuel lines as much with what you said, but ill research that a little more and get that done also. Should I just get fuel lines with AN fittings and connect directly to my fuel rail without a fuel filter? Thanks for the input.

AZ_CIVIC

iTrader: (1)

If you are going to use Hondata V3 I would also use the Hondata COP (Coil On Plug) setup and ditch the MSD stuff which would not be needed. For the fuel system lots of people do it many different ways. I got rid of the stock fuel tank and went with an FCS tank, I run dual 044's and also utilize inline filters with my setup and run braded lines all the way to the rail and braded lines for the return lines as well. As for the trans you can contact Locash Racing who usually carries the gearsets and bell housings, Joe can also talk with you about gearing, fuel setups, tuning etc. Sales@locashracing.com and his number is 602-763-5189.

Joe really knows what he is doing, he has built his Integra to run 8.20's and also has the fastest FIS car in the country which runs 8.6's, he does a lot of CNC machining, tuning, engine builds etc. I would suggest taking the time to give him a call and get some suggestions on your goals and with his wealth of knowledge can easily help you out if you are serious about going fast.

AZ_CIVIC

iTrader: (1)

I forgot to mention, I'm not on any crazy sophisticated setup either, just the right people have helped me along the way. Honestly my motor is not much different then yours and it was able to get me an 8.93 with almost 5000 foot DA's in Tucson. I'm running a steel rod sleeved block, off the shelf pistons, Skunk2 Pro 1 cams that I bought used from a car who had them for years, used Edelbrock Manifold with Blox Throttle body I got from Joe that came off Colorado Race Fabrications car. So motor wise it really is an of the shelf parts and used parts motor, I just have a few parts that really make it fast, tranny, Motec, Strain Gauge and tuner. However those are the most expensive parts LOL.

Anyway good luck on the setup and most important have fun!!