klungemonger

Hey all I'm about to drop an OBD1 JDM B16A longblock into my 98 hatch. I'm thinking of doing a "budget-minded" turbo setup on it. I have done a couple upgrades on it prior to installation:

AEBS intake manifold
Performance Products 65mm t/b
Fidanza 8-lb flywheel
TCS 6-puck clutch (supposedly will hold 400hp)
Walbro 255 fuel pump already on the car.

My goal is pretty modest, I think. I want to run pump gas (93 is the highest available here), not demolish my bottom end quickly, raise the torque throughout as much of the powerband as possible, and get at least 200whp. Not looking for tremendous hp here, anything over 200 will be fine but I'd like to get the torque coming on alot sooner then 5500 rpms. What spec of turbo should I be hunting for to accomplish this and with that particular unit what PSI should hit the 200ish whp mark? I'm assuming around 8psi could do it? Don't want to change the stock MAP sensor either. This is my first turbo attempt so help me out!

JaredKaragen

sorry to say but heres a hint...

hondas are designed around HP not Tq....

unless it is Honda's euro diesel motor, but that's entirely different

klungemonger

Yes, but Hondas are also not designed around turbos...the great equalizer of low-displacement engines. The 1.8t VW pulls like mad from about 2000rpms because it hits boost so quick. I'm not saying I want it that quickly I realize this is a short-stroke motor I just want to fatten the torque curve across as much of the rpm range as possible without totally running out of steam at 8000rpm. Not trying to run 11's, or even 12's just make it more responsive in the mid/low area so it's a more balanced behaving engine. The B16 already has nothing below 5500rpm and lots above it, I don't want to just accentuate that characteristic.
And anyways, since good steady torque that can be maintained all the way to redline = nice hp, I want suggestions what people think will produce the best and broadest torque curve. I'd like to have some extra oomph cruising around, maybe reach VTEC faster when going from a roll...not just have crazy lag then suddenly boost+VTEC come on at teh same time tearing loose my tires.

0morgan@synapse motorsport

i would go with a gt28rs for your application, it makes good power across the entire rpm range. it might be a little too big for your goals though, any turbo you go with that hits you from 2500 wont have a lot of juice up top which you may or may not care for.

klungemonger

Thanks for teh reply...what are the specs like a/r on that turbo? So if it's out of my price range I might still find something comparable but more budget-minded, if you know what I mean.

0morgan@synapse motorsport

there isnt really another turbo like it, it is more on the expensive side. here is garrett specs.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/...1.htm

another alternative to look into would be a gt28r.

klungemonger

Thanks for the help, I'll check that out!

HarfordCTR

Do alot of research

klungemonger

That was a great suggestion, thanks for the help. If you know something about turbos buddy, feel free to share something with me. If you don't, feel free to not post-***** in my thread.

adubaz7

hhmmm budget minded 200whp
I would do a t3 super 60 garret turbo it is small but 200whp is a joke for most any turbo but that hole 8psi is going to be tough probably 9-10 psi but very quick spool and you can use any cheap log maifold with that turbo I would suggest a 14b mits turbo but manifold not as easy to come across as a t3 mani is also keep in mind that you cant go to small on the exhaust side or your top end will suffer and that is just lame if your going turbo
by the way have you ever driven a turbo b16 car

klungemonger

Thanks for responding, I definitely think the T3 flange is the way to go to keep my manifold choices plentiful. I am not opposed to doing maybe 10psi, I don't necessarily WANT to keep the hp down, I just realize that to get more power down low the top will have to suffer some.

If this is really just too tall of an order to fill, what about something that will at least start to boost before VTEC, like in the lower-mid-4Krpm range, is that more feasible?

adubaz7

have you ridden in a boost b16 car

klungemonger

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by adubaz7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">have you ridden in a boost b16 car</TD></TR></TABLE> No...did you get my PM I sent you?

adubaz7

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by klungemonger &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> No...did you get my PM I sent you?</TD></TR></TABLE>

K I just checked it now well first off do not buy that turbo!!! most all the other parts you can go cheap no but do not go cheap on the turbo the turbo is what makes or breaks your turbo setup most important part you will buy for ur car aside from tuning but still u cant tune with a shity turbo

If you need a good price and great service I bought from this guy http://www.synapseturbo.com the turbo I was talking about earlier he probably sells for around 550 shipped and it is a great turbo that you can rebuild cheap if any thing ever happens


second the reason I ask if you have ever ridden in a boosted b16 is because with a turbo the entire powerband is different if you look at a dyno sheet for a stock b16 vs a stock b16 with a turbo kit you will see that peek torque is around 106ft/lbs and up near 7000rpm on a stockb16 where as on a boosted b16 you have 100ft/lbs by 2500 and by 5700 your torque is nealy double that even on a low boost setup the car will be very fun to drive that way much more appealing than a na setup even just a 200whp b16 is fun with a turbo

talk to mike at synapse tho he will help you out

klungemonger

Yeah that's what I'm talking about right there...I'm glad to hear from someone who's done it instead of someone who never tried and just says it's pointless. I'm not trying to pull out tree stumps with the Civic just give it grunt.

So if you don't mind telling me more what are all the specs of your turbo and what kind of numbers/curve are you making? I see that Mike from Synapse posted to me above, when I'm ready to make a choice I'll hit him up for sure.

If I made a setup that maybe netted me 250whp with like 10psi what kind of unit would I be looking to get, using all stock block (also keep in mind the JDM has like 10.4 c/r..) on 93 octane. And will I have reliability issues at that level?

adubaz7

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by klungemonger &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah that's what I'm talking about right there...I'm glad to hear from someone who's done it instead of someone who never tried and just says it's pointless. I'm not trying to pull out tree stumps with the Civic just give it grunt.

So if you don't mind telling me more what are all the specs of your turbo and what kind of numbers/curve are you making? I see that Mike from Synapse posted to me above, when I'm ready to make a choice I'll hit him up for sure.

If I made a setup that maybe netted me 250whp with like 10psi what kind of unit would I be looking to get, using all stock block (also keep in mind the JDM has like 10.4 c/r..) on 93 octane. And will I have reliability issues at that level?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would say go with a garret t3/t4 50 trim with a 48a/r exhaust housing or a 63a/r if you ever plan to upgrade the internals on the motor but 250whp should be no problem if the engine is healthy but I recomend you spend the money on good fuel manegment find a good tuner for hondas in the area and find out what he recomends a good managment system will last forever and you can take it from car to car with you plus there are base maps other people have used and have worked so they did all the work for you and really a hondata a 200-600 is really not that bad and some of the others are even cheaper


My setup is a bone stock b16 with a LARGE t3/60-1 turbo with a .82 exhaust and stage 5 wheel
hondata s300 with 650cc injectors and 255lph pump

My car has not been dyno'ed yet but probably next week or the week after but I have a rough tune I have been working on myself and even with the really big turbo I hit 7psi before 5200rpm car has descent torque by 4000 or so but a good tune should clean up my bottom end alot
I chose a large turbo because I have plans for a buitl motor that can take 600whp and rev to 9 or 10 thousand so small turbo was out of the question but I am blown away at how fun this car is to drive even out of boost the car is still just as responsive as with out the turbo just vtec feels like vtec plus a 100 shot of nos and so far I am only running 7psi and it is an f'n 110 out side here in AZ

bigbadboy

a SC-34 is also a good choice in turbo and is also cheap. and spools fast. the best turbo for ur goals would be a GT28

klungemonger

You think really a .48 turbine will deliver any top end? I was afraid from what people are saying it would be too small and die out. Would the .63 be the best balance?

Also I figured on using at least 440 injectors, and getting a Phearable basemap...I think he uses Crome? I know there are a couple tuners in the area, don't know if they are trustworthy. The one I could have used was Payn Technologies but they closed up. I could probably get up to Japan Automotive in Toronto, if the basemap is good enough it's a 5-hour drive.

Other suggestions? Like intercooler and charge piping size?

Wopsicle69

I tried to say that **** once, "oh i'll be happy with 200whp". Bro, once you get the feeling of boost and vtec, your life will be over... mine is Its now time for even more