T3

Like topic says...I am planning on doing a rebuild in a couple of months when I work up the money..Maybe a half *** rebuild with just the basics..Are these worth getting?Ive seen cars pushing up to 22psi with just stock springs,retainers and valves..Just wanting to know if they are worth my time and money...I plan on running 14-18psi when I get the right management...


edit: in bold


[Modified by T3, 11:38 PM 4/2/2003]

1.8T_EG

... i'd like to know too... considering valves and valvesprings only on my rebuild... i guess it just kinda depends on how the head looks when it comes off of the block... btw, is it okay to just do the valves and valvesprings (skunk2) alone... or should i also get the retainers too... lemme know... thanks...

T3

No replys

dfoxengr

springs/retainers worth it if ur revving, valves unnecessary

shingles

Well to me it's all a matter of "when". People ask all the time "can I boost 20psi with stock bottom end?" Well sure, but how long is it going to last?

I don' supposed you need to have new retainers etc... but stock retainers break after some point... stock valve springs won't cut it after so point... it's a matter of how long you want it to last, IMO.

I am taking very long and careful planning on my project because I want the engine to last... not dyno 400whp and blow up in 3 months. I'd rather it make 325whp and last 5 years than 400 and 2 months...

Crazy Cooter

I wouldn't bother unless you plan on removing/raising the rev limiter. But that's just my opinion.

dasher

don't get Ti retainers unless its for a track car ... they will allow you to rev 300 more rpm and are more heat resistant but wear down much quicker ... should typically replace them every 30,000 miles ...

As far as stiffer springs and new valves are concerned ... its just the icing on the cake if you want to raise your rev limiter and make more power .... every little bit helps ... I would put the money elsewhere first for turbo applications though ...


[Modified by dasher, 2:30 PM 4/3/2003]

b18cTurbo

stock is fine as long your egt's stay below 800c-850c you should be fine
valve is all about heat tolerance
or correct me

T3

Ill just get springs and retainers..Maybe if I find some cheap valves for 60-85 I might get them too..

dasher

I was refering to aftermarket Ti retainers having a limited life ... stock retainers last much longer ... aftermarket Ti retainers don't but are more heat resistant and thus allow you to rev harder and longer in a race .....

Cole D

stock retainers are the bomb....... just look at motorcycles the rev past 16k and all on a steel retainer spend your money wisely on something else. Look into getting the retainers cryo frozen it makes them alot stronger

Chris

fsp31

But springs will also reduce the life of the retainers. IMO, increased boost beats increased revs for the majority of us. If you're building something wild though...

BoostedGSRBubble

I would rather spent the $$ on some arp head studs and rod bolts. The stock stuff is pretty good unless you want to rev higher.

turbologist

Wouldnt the extra rev limit (1000-1500rpm), overall RPM of 9000-9500on a fairly large turbo make a significant amount of HP? Also at the same time help on the top end; as far as what RPM you cross the finish line and whether you have to shift to another gear at the top end?

T3

Cool...I guess I will just focus on my turbo install...Thanks 4 replys

Aeka GSR

I wouldnt do it unless you want to raise your redline. Otherwise the tight springs just rob horsepower.

turbopanda

i'd definately change the springs, not because you're revving your engine to a higher RPM, but because you're engine is accelerating a lot faster than it ever did before.. the springs have to be able to keep up, if you know what i mean. Valves? Stainless Steel is good enough.. maybe a set of ferreas or something, but you could still run a healthy engine without them. Retainers? I don't think its really necessary - i've yet to see any of my friends break one (a stock one) - one of my friends runs an 11,000 RPM B16A engine (circuit car) with stock valves and retainers. His retainers didn't break yet

the-anti-crack

i blew my 1st b16 in 9 days. i like to rev, i was racing and mssed a shift.
now i have portflow springs and retainers.
that was a STUPID and expensive mistake.......change the springs and retainers i say

turbopanda

missed a shift and it broke? that was human error then.. wasn't the engine's fault
but yes, by all means, if you have the cash to splash, get the valves as well as the springs.

93LSivic

Ok, my 0.02

If your stuck on spending money this is what to do.
Always look at the worst possible cenario. As stated above the guy blew his motor from misshifting, apparently dropped a vlave from broken spring. Now, considering a valve bouncing around inside the combustion chamber where the engine speeds are anywhere between 1000 and 8000 rpms lots of parts can get fucked up very fast---pistons, sleeves/cylinder walls, head, rods.
I would definetly, definetly spend the money to get valve springs at the very least. I wouldnt recommend titanium retainers to anyone---stay stock here.
If you decide to spend the money on valves then you might as well spend the money on oversized valves cause they are the same price as stock size. Of course your valve seats in the head will need to be enlarged and rebuild price will go up a bit---its really not that much to have the seats touched up for oversized valves but if you want a 4-5 angle valve job then it gets a little more expensive. If you dont want the added expense of head work, and you still want valves then I would suggest just going with exhaust valves. The intake valves stay nice and cool cause you have fuel and AIT's that keep them happy.

Think thats about it. Just remember, you dont want to throw money away by not throwing some more money up to do it right

sweet

iTrader: (5)

some really good info so far.

valves aren't needed unless you're pushing lots of boost and creating lots of heat, too much that the stock valves can't handle it. retainers are another thing that's not really needed either. they will help you rev higher more safely, but you don't need them unless the redline is very high. i personally would get the springs for sure, even with the stock redline. the boost pressure alone and the fact that the motor is reving much quicker than before means that more spring pressure is needed to control the valve keeping it closed and opened when it should be.

for my setup i went with Portflow springs, Ferrea valves and OEM retainers/clips.
i haven't taken the redline over the stock setting yet, but in the future i will be 500 rpm or so, along with moderate boost levels. the OEM retainers are fine for 8500-8800 rpm and they last longer than the Ti retainers do. also if you use SS valves remember to go the distance and install Bronze valve guides due to the extra wear.

93LSivic

Also to add. I take my LS to 9000 rpm with stock retainers, stock guides, and stock keepers, Crower dual springs, Ferrea +1 in./ex. valves. No girdle either.

Everyone keeps talking about heat. With turbo you are drastically increasing cylinder temps. Heat and valves dont get along well together.

Dublocivic

I thought I heard that stock exhaust valves are sodium (heat resistant) filled correct?(Please correct me if I am wrong)


[Modified by Dublocivic, 1:24 PM 4/4/2003]

T3

That was more than 0.02...


Very helpful..I will stick with springs.

the-anti-crack

it was abvious that was driver error, im human.
my point being with springs, the motor would have probably survived.

i now have a piece of a piston as a paper weight, and the rest of the motor....a real big paper weight.