Balor_Gr

Hello. I found one of them here at europe at a good price.Its a spa bottom mount.
It seems like a nice design and it angles to turbo 35degrees on the flange probable to fit bigger turbos without trimming?


The probalm is i couldnt find any pictures with it installed.Would this handle 450whp?

2kdrift

Earlier this year there was a build that used one of these it was on a Integra with ls motor I believe. Although photobucket most likely took the pics for hostage.

nevermind I think he's on the top mount one.

don't see any issues with 450 my guess would be that it could make closer to 600

Balor_Gr

Look i wouldnt be asking this if it wasnt the ~150$ price. I heard people had success with SPA casting in the states thats why i ask.
Heck today i was browsing their turbos too. Them allso look legit.

2kdrift

Yea I like "log" manifolds most of them are under rated and this looks to be one of the better ones

LightningTeg

I've never seen the bottom mount version

And the question about power potential, its more of a matter of should you do it more than can you do it. It'll make 450whp but their are better options out there.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

However, it appears that your exhaust manifold option is not one of the "better ones", sir.

(I admit, I've starting a little static here, but the comment Balor_GR stated on his other thread, just......annoyed me a little. But pay me no mind, I've already gotten over it. )

Autoworks

^ (just browsing)

Wha turbo re you pairing this manifold with?

jim chuck

That's funny right there. I was thinking of pointing that out, you beat me to it

Balor_Gr

Oh roast me ok haha.
Ill try to help you what we pay for parts in europe. And why i said this:



I couldnt find a mini-ram on ebay to get the exact price, but you can get what i mean.If im paying 700$ for the mini ram without the exchange fee oh dam, its gotta be good compared to the 160$ spa bottom mount.
Ill probably just get the bottom mount just to have it since its local. Ill probably never use it but if you know what is like, i like to get what i can get at a very good price just to get it.

I might sell it to a friend or maybe use it who knows.

Autoworks

^Base price and import charges are slightly less if you were to purchase that direct, shipping would be a little more (that's what I hear anyway).

I get what you are saying w/ the Spa being cheap...but that's also $160 wasted if it isn't what you really want as well.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

QFT. We don't look at this just about cost. We understand as a global venture that its all expensive. (And I know all about everything from Import taxes and VATs to alterations in exchange rates. So, it's not that we don't have sympathy, but we don't have much empathy, because that is the cost to go fast..) These are considered more or less investments, hence why we're giving you a little **** about it. No point in doing it, if it's not what its meant to do.

Sometimes, you gotta "Man Up" and get what works, not just what's cheap.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

You're not going to find a Mini-Ram on eBay. Because the makers won't put it on there. Lots of time and work into that manifold, and many fabricators are just not willing to take the chance to get screwed by eBay. (It does hell on vendors and manufacturers, that many people just don't know or care about. This is why you don't see users here go through eBay to get quality "hot parts")

For someone bitching about the cost, you must have enough money to spend if you're going to get the SPA "just 'cuz". That makes no fiscal sense. But, hey, it's your euros.

Balor_Gr

Im starting to believe my english are very bad.
Im not bitching about pricing.Im trying,from the second post to show you how low this price is here.
In the states 160$ may be normal here is very cheap cosidering what you have to pay to get a "real" manifold.
The only things thats cheaper here is labor. Really cheaper from the states
Getting it and not using it next day is not the same as droping your money off the balcony.
I dont know a "car guy" that doesnt have 300 to 3000 in parts just sitting around that "might use or sell one day".
Thats all.

LightningTeg

I think its being construed that you would buy this manifold because it seems like a good deal, not because you actually want to use it. And that cost is basically the extra amount your going to pay to get a miniram over there.

You can get these Mini rams for $500 in the states. so $650-700 for a quality manifold that will do everything you ask and more is still a great deal.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Yes. what Autoworks is describing is considered to be the implicit connotation of term "bitching". Your English is perfectly fine. We understood what you're saying (you've always been more proficient than most that use the English written language every day, so don't lower your abilities like that. )

Defined: "Bitching": Repeatedly using the same premise over and over, or (rather complaining about it,) which therefore deflects the ability of the stater to express their point fluidly. The stater than believes that the audience has misconstrued their statement, when in fact, that statement was accepted as a premise by the audience.

Geis

As far as I understood things, if the manifold is tubular (or cast tubular) and has a decent collector, it should be fine up to around 600 no? The runners on the SPA he's proposing to purchase look alright to me.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I mean, that's up to him.. the design reminds me of an older DRAG exhaust manifold where the wastegate isn't in the best spot to work with, (even with a cast manifold). But, its all good as long as he knows that he's going to be the guinea pig for himself.. Why not?

2kdrift

hmm from what I can see in the pics its at least somewhat at the collector unlike the drag, maybe Im seeing it wrong

Autoworks

If they would have taken that bottom pic, and turned it around so the inside of the collector was showing then it would tell a lot more. That gate still could be pulling off 1 cyl, depending on how well they are contoured inside. If the contour is good, then it's pulling primarily off 2. Had they dragged that port to the center, then it would have been ideal and pulling off of all 4.

IMO it's really hard to say x manifold is good for xxx horsepower. That is going to be dictated by a combination of parts.

Balor_Gr

Yes that would help. Ill post pictures soon tho.

Autoworks

Just a curious observation. In another thread here you were posting about how "awful" the "unequal length mini ram" was...but you chose to purchase a cast log manifold w/ off center gate. I'm just trying to understand the logic pros/cons behind that decision. Did price trump everything else?

Balor_Gr

Yes thats the reason Theshoadan was angry too.
Ill quote to you my previous answers

About the mini ram again in my opinion im quoting Theshodan and thats also my experience
Its allways that 3rd cylinder. Call me stuborn but i dont like my manifold if its not 1-4 2-3 divided to have that amount of difference between the cylinders. Thats all
Its like RC injectors people was and is happy with them running from 300 to 700 whp. They may work fine but i wouldnt get them. I am running a stupid set of precision 440s right now just cause i got em almost free and i new what i wanted from them.
But would i pay like 250 to get em new? No ill get a set of FIC or grams or deatschwerks or ansu for my new build.

And ill never had a problem with a ramhorn or top mount manifold from you of course. Its not you of course what im trying to say its the design i dont like.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Hehe. C'mon. I know English isn't your 1st language, but there's a difference between angry, and annoyed. I was the latter. In the end, this isn't my project, but you need to have the information correct first before you can just judge people's input that you're being given. Especially if you're looking for feedback and input from others. It is the internet, after all, but in the end, we know, just like you, that your opinion is what's going to matter in the end.

Secondly, I think you're also misconstruing the idea that cylinder #3 is always the lean on in the firing order, and that the exhaust manifold design of the mini-ram exacerbates that lean condition. It does not.. We're telling you this from its use, and not what you think is the case on paper. Just so we're clear; your preference of how you design your manifold is absolutely justified, being that its not how you like it. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the mini-ram design should be "thrown in the trash", simply because you don't like it.

Hell, I can't stand top-mounted manifolds for street use. But that doesn't mean the design itself is garbage. It's that the design doesn't fit the purposethat many users intend to use it for. But I won't throw it in the trash, or get overly sensitive of it. It does have its purpose, as does the Mini-ram. I find it ironic that you're trying to get something to fit your purpose, the mini-ram can deliver that purpose, (from verified testimony), and that you're intent on using these other systems, that have many of their own faults, but want to just state immediately that..it's trash. That's just throwing ideas back in one's face. If you don't like it, you can say simply that it's not your speed, it's too expensive to get in Europe even if you did like it, and move on. We're all fine with that, really.

You don't like the design of the Mini-ram. Ok. It's over. But then, to be fair, please be willing be just as open to other ideas...Just face it, you're not really going to "sell" us on this SPA right now as it stands.

So, with that, in an effort to try and continue some harmony, Why don't we all just get away from discussions of either manifold or its design, if it's getting sensitive to people, and try something else...... Or don't... We know its up to you to make the decision, and we have nothing personally invested here.

2kdrift

I love my Inline pro "log" but it aint cheap lol. I think its more similar to a mini ram then a traditional log its just VERY mini. point is there are definitely good log manifolds out there maybe the SPA is not the best choice hard to say since there is basically no point of reference we only know what has been proven

Never tried a mini ram but for a street car mini rams can be overkill IMO depending on what your going for, like shodan says it comes down to purpose more then anything else mentioned

Autoworks

I'm certain neither of us were "angry"..surely not me. I'm just trying to grasp the "how" of it. One proven (time and time again) manifold is scrutinized by "theory' (that happen to cost $700) while one that looks like a brick w/ a wastegate port gets a "hey what about this option"...that happens to be $150...with no mention of flow. It just seems like comparing apples to walnuts with the largest factor being $$; while the debate was on flow instead of dollars? Do you see what I'm saying there? The logic of it just seemed confusing. Anyway, I'm all for a V2 cast log or Inline Pro log, work w/ them everyday. I'm ALL for a mini ram as an "all around winner". I do not like tubular/weld el logs...they too are purely a compromise option...much like the Spa pictured. Anywho...