1SlowSi

First off, the rings were gapped perfectly. CP pistons and rings, benson sleeved. We assembled the block. Well when we got the motor running, it didnt smoke at all for the first couple days. Afterwards it started to let off a poof of smoke during shifting. It doesnt smoke while accelerating.. maybe a HAIR but not really. It happens while decceleration hense the smoke while shifting. On a scale of 1-10 it smokes like a 5. I hate smoke period and it shouldnt be doing this. We used 20w50 AND an oil thickener to help the ring seal. The motor had 500 miles on it before we tuned, still held boost and made the power (my recent post) so i have no idea what else to do. Earl says that it may be the valve guides/seals. What do you guys think?

Compression is 210-210-210-210

Some more info. The smoke is a bluish color. So oil definately. After a 500 mile trip, i was a quart 1/2 low.


Modified by 1SlowSi at 6:35 PM 5/17/2005


Modified by 1SlowSi at 6:36 PM 5/17/2005

CRX T-Si

I would check the Turbo for shaft play.

Did that to me before, and found out it was the turbo.

Wow, I never would have used the 20w-50 oil for a newly rebuilt motor. Change the oil to a regular 10w40 and see.

seen4ever

sounds like valve seals or guides to me. but i think its related to the head. I know my hatch used to not smoke but would use some oil and during shifts I could sometimes see a puff (well actually people watching me run would see a little smoke). Turns out over the winter, when I actually decided to have the head looked out, my valve guides were absolutely shot and worthless. The machine shop said I was lucky I hadn't dropped a valve due to the amount of movement my exhaust valves had. I went ahead and had Earl set me up with a full supertech valve line so I can rev the **** out of the engine.

I know in Louisville, not many machine shops want to work with replacing the valve guide on a honda head. Some places around here don't even inspect them. So keep an eye out.

1SlowSi

Man ohh man. I doubt its shaft play in the turbo. The turbo only has 1000 miles on it now. I just checked it and it seems fine. I dont even want to hear... HEAD WORK. ****** A. So i dont need new valves do I? I have to have a machine shop do something with the valve guides?? i didnt touch the head inside so i dont know exactly what the guides/seals are.

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

I agree. 20w50 plus thickener is way too thick for a new motor, well any motor. I dont think your rings are to blame. I think the smoke is coming from else where, head or turbo.

What did you gap the rings to? How many miles on the head?

1SlowSi

The rings i forget. They were already in spec from when Earl shipped them. I believe its coming from the head. its ONLY from deceleration. ONLY. I mean yeah WOT.. maybe a tad bit. Thats normal. What i need to know is this. IF its my valve guides/seals, will i cause any more damage driving it like this now? The head has 9k on it. Ferera .5mm oversized valves. Would i just need new guides/seals?

1SlowSi

Well... i will go back to 10w30-40. NOt only did i use 50, but i used a thickener. That was like molasses syrup. We were hoping it was the ring seal, but after driving 700 miles and its still smoking... it might be safe to say that its the head. What can i do to the turbo to check for shaft play?

CRX T-Si

Change the oil first and then see if it's doing it still.

Oil change to a regular 10w-40 is like what $20 bux vs, pulling the head, getting new head gasket and all the pain and suffering that you will have to go thru.

So change the oil and then check.

1SlowSi

Ive changed the oil 3 times in the past 3 weeks. Once after a week of the new motor, again after we had to pull the pan off, and again after i tuned. yeah still smoke. Answer me this. If the turbo seal was blown out, wouldnt it smoke ALL the time?

CRX T-Si

Not talking about the turbo seal.

If the oil was too thick it might have clog your oil feed to the turbo so the turbo was not properly lubricated.

Once a turbo is starved from oil the bearings go out. This is how a new turbo can be go bad. To check all you need to do is try to move the compressor wheel up or down, a little play is normal but if it's alot then you know whats up.

1SlowSi

So thats for shaft play, whats the best way to check if the seal went out? other than checking for oil in the charge pipes. This turbo has 1000 miles on it. Sc34. I guess i can disconnet the turbo SOMEHOW and run it and see if it still smokes. But blown seals/bearings and smoke ONLY while decelerating?

Stewie

On deceleration, with the throttle closed, there's alot of vac behind the intake valve. If your valve guides are worn, it gonna pull alot of oil into the cylinder. I say it's your valve guides or valve seals

1SlowSi

damn i dont know wanna hear that. Ill check the IC piping for oil, and check for shaft play. Ill run 10w30 for the next oil change and see what happens. All i need to know is this.

If it is indeed my guides or seals, will it hurt driving around like this for a while? I AM NOT pulling this head off. I just spent a month working on all this. i need a break. lol.

Redwidow

what size feed line are you using for your turbo?

1SlowSi

-3AN feed -10AN return

seen4ever

who built the head the first time?

what springs/retainors? seems odd if the head was rebuilt 9k miles ago and it wasn't excessively overreved then the guides would be good to go. Assuming the original place that rebuilt the head actually changed the guides.

1SlowSi

crower springs and retainers. i dont know who built it. I got it from my friend. I think he may have had the same problem with smoke but not AS bad.. but still ther.

JdmEKCivic

Did you try a leak down test ? you said the rings came from earl, was it pregapped for that block or off the self ?

nonvtecD

How did you break in the motor?

turbodohcsi

sounds like valve seals to me.. does it smoke when you first crank it up after a long time of cooling down? its possible its the turbo, but most turboes will cause a lot of smoke at idle when they start to go bad. SO, if it is your valve seals its easy to fix, all you need is new seals which arent even like a dollar a piece and either a really big c clamp or a remover tool. if you were local id do it for you, but its pretty damn easy and quickly done.

1SlowSi

I guess i could try and change the seals. So i dont have to pull the head to change the seals huh? That would be less of a headache. Where are you located man? I dont have the tools to do it where im at right now. Jacksonville NC. i would take a couple hour trip thats about it. It doesnt smoke when i start up. only decleration. Thats it. Yeah its not the turbo. Highly doubt it. For breaking in the motor, i just drove it for 500 miles. No beating cause it wasnt tuned.

adseguy

I think it's in the head too, but you may want to run a restrictor to the turbo and check the oil return line for any kinks or leveling out before the return into the pan. GL finding what it is

turbodohcsi

i live close to atlanta. and you could do it with the head on the car, but its harder. its easier to just take the head off, which dont take long at all, then just pull the springs off and the valves out and boom done. and if you have never replaced your seals then you can almost put money on it that the seals are the criminal in this event

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

I know valve seals are not what you want to hear. But believe me its alot better than being your rings

1SlowSi

The only thing i dont like about my oil return line is how the bung was welded on the pan KINDA at a downward angle, not straight across. The line comes straight down off the turbo nice slope, goes straight then slightly angle up into the pan. Im sure its got enough momentum to push through that slope. Im not gonna pull that damn pan off for this either. I will take a pic later on of the return.

TurboDOHCSi, where near Atlanta? So can you do it with the head on?