M.A.R.C.

Yes I searched but I'm not finding much about stock LS/VTEC (turbo) setups.

I'm looking into a stock LS/VTEC w/ GSR head so..............

Just had a few questions...

are any people actually running stock ls/vtec turbo setups? all i seem to find is stock n/a setups. and for those who are... how do you like it? any details or tips for putting together the motor (aside from the usual vtec oil pump, w-pump, oil squirters, etc)? Block girdle... yay or nay? what are you all revving to under boost and what kinda power levels are u all making?

Thanks in advance
Marc

Joseph Davis

Methinks you need to talk to Blundar's friend Nick, whose e-name or contact info escapes me at the moment. Last I saw him, he had a "stock" B20/VTEC turbo that was maxxing out 450cc on the low cam... tee hee.

M.A.R.C.

lol. nice i will have to look into it. is he on h-t?
mornin bump

Boltz

I'm sure it could be done, but I could imagine that it would only be time until the ringlands go. Is it not in your budget to buy forged internals?

M.A.R.C.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boltz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm sure it could be done, but I could imagine that it would only be time until the ringlands go. Is it not in your budget to buy forged internals?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

well i mean how would it be any worse than boosting a stock ls motor... or any stock b-series for that matter? it's not in my budget at the moment... but i've been without a car for a while now and i want to get running but i also would rather have it done right... it's a tough call. i have the whole ls swap so i'm considering putting it in and just driving, but since it's out i could build it. anyway bump for more info on stock ls/vtecs

RacerXI

I've read somewhere that the stock oil pump doesn't work well between feeding the head and turbo. That is not first hand experience, but I'm looking at a LS block for a spare myself.

*edit* your CR would be 10ish:1

M.A.R.C.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RacerXI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've read somewhere that the stock oil pump doesn't work well between feeding the head and turbo. That is not first hand experience, but I'm looking at a LS block for a spare myself.

*edit* your CR would be 10ish:1</TD></TR></TABLE>

yah well i'd be putting in a GSR oil pump and w-pump. also the cr i found out would be close to 9.8:1

Turbocivic94

I was running 10psi on stock ls/vtec. Only problem I had, head lifted under boost. Then I put arp headstuds and no problems afterwards. I highly recommend using arp headstuds. Car was sick fast

M.A.R.C.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbocivic94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was running 10psi on stock ls/vtec. Only problem I had, head lifted under boost. Then I put arp headstuds and no problems afterwards. I highly recommend using arp headstuds. Car was sick fast</TD></TR></TABLE>

did u have a girdle or arp rodbolts?

Joseph Davis

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CivicRyda2k &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well i mean how would it be any worse than boosting a stock ls motor... </TD></TR></TABLE>

EXACTLY. Thank you. LS generates more torque due to "poor" headflow (wtfever that is), which indicates that compressive loads in an LS/VTEC aren't anything LS rods flinch at, and the tensile loading from revving it high?? I know plenty of ex/current HC engines built that turn 8400 rpms daily, LS rod/OEM fasteners/heavy 84mm B20 piston on the end.

Like anything, it lasts about as long as you don't detonate on it.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

EXACTLY. Thank you. LS generates more torque due to "poor" headflow (wtfever that is), which indicates that compressive loads in an LS/VTEC aren't anything LS rods flinch at, and the tensile loading from revving it high?? I know plenty of ex/current HC engines built that turn 8400 rpms daily, LS rod/OEM fasteners/heavy 84mm B20 piston on the end.

Like anything, it lasts about as long as you don't detonate on it. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You're almost right. But the block creates more torque due to the longer stroke of the cylinders. longer stroke makes the LS block an 1834cc setup..

beerbongskickass

LS/Vtec turbo

If I ever had an LS engine the first thing I would do is swap and vtec head on it, then go turbo of course. A couple people I know rev their stock LS/Vtec's to 8500 rpms all day long, one of them was even a twin turbo LS/Vtec.

http://www.homemadeturbo.com/f...26711

Joseph Davis

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheShodan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You're almost right. But the block creates more torque due to the longer stroke of the cylinders. longer stroke makes the LS block an 1834cc setup..</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, I'm completely right.

Pay attention to how headflow influences powerband, and torque figures. LS/VTECs don't make as much torque under boost as straight LS, check a few dyno sheets out to see that I am talking about. It has to do with LS being a "conventional" setup where you induce as much air mass per cycle as possible, whereas VTEC setups use boost to extend torque output after the engine's natural VE/torque peak; while less efficient per engine cycle, you use high revs to generate high hp off a minimal amount of torque.

LS vs GSR is a good comparo, too... 1mm stroke aka ~50cc displacement difference means **** all.

Mase

i have a few dyno charts that says your wrong joey...i have an exam to go to now, but ill post it up later....

Joseph Davis

Go for it, Mase. I think you'll be trying to make a different point than I am, though.

Mase

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

LS/VTECs don't make as much torque under boost as straight LS, check a few dyno sheets out to see that I am talking about. </TD></TR></TABLE>


check this graph




Green is your straight LS.
LS/Vtec is Red

further, GSR is in blue.

Each graph is about the same boost levels (except the LS was running 12 psi vs. the others around 8-9) and similar turbo setups.

sadly, the graph on the LS/vtec was not complete, we had trouble picking the tach up. but you can see the trend. the torque doesnt drop off on the ls/vtec up top, but they do make about the same midrange.

M.A.R.C.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Go for it, Mase. I think you'll be trying to make a different point than I am, though.</TD></TR></TABLE>

hey if u find out who blunder's friend one. can u tell him to shoot me a pm... i got questions!

bump for more testimonials. i'm thinkign ls/vtec on stock bottom end w/o girdle for now and limit the revvs to 8000

Boltz

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CivicRyda2k &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

well i mean how would it be any worse than boosting a stock ls motor... or any stock b-series for that matter? it's not in my budget at the moment... but i've been without a car for a while now and i want to get running but i also would rather have it done right... it's a tough call. i have the whole ls swap so i'm considering putting it in and just driving, but since it's out i could build it. anyway bump for more info on stock ls/vtecs</TD></TR></TABLE>

It wouldn't be any worse. I have also been without a car for quite a while and if it were me, I would want that nice motor to stay in one piece. I'm not trying to say it wont be reliable if you dont beef it up, but we all know it would make it stronger. I'm a fan of doing it right, and doing it once. Also downtime kills me, but thats just my .02....

Mag00n

Mase are you pretty much saying that ls/vtec responds better to boost than both a stock ls(expected) and a gsr(some what surprising)? Also can you explain why the gsr is lacking so much in torque compared to the other two?

Nobody Special

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mase &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


check this graph




Green is your straight LS.
LS/Vtec is Red

further, GSR is in blue.

Each graph is about the same boost levels (except the LS was running 12 psi vs. the others around 8-9) and similar turbo setups.

sadly, the graph on the LS/vtec was not complete, we had trouble picking the tach up. but you can see the trend. the torque doesnt drop off on the ls/vtec up top, but they do make about the same midrange. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Proves to me exactly how worthless a Vtec head is. The straight LS gave the business to both the GSR and the LS/Vtec all the way to 6k. Seems like all it needs is some springs and maybe cams and it's "Vtec what?" lol. love it...

Mag00n

Reading owns you. The LS was running 12psi while the ls/vtec and gsr were only running 8-9. That is a very significant difference. Furthermore, the LS/VTEC wasnt even brought to its true redline. Thankyoucomeagain.

Nobody Special

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mag00n &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Reading owns you. The LS was running 12psi while the ls/vtec and gsr were only running 8-9. That is a very significant difference. Furthermore, the LS/VTEC wasnt even brought to its true redline. Thankyoucomeagain.</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol own3d - but also remember that the LS can actually run 12psi on stock internals with pump sauce, where as the GSR and LS Vtec can't. So...who's owned?? lol.

Mag00n

lol, I'd like to hear your reasoning as to why a gsr, B16, lsvtec, "cant" run 12psi on pump gas. That is really just a silly statement that shows lack of understanding of F/I Honda's, and turbo in general. I have a lot of turbo buddys who could prove you wrong very quickly.

Also, FYI "12psi" is meaningless. 12psi on a t3 .42/48 is a lot different than 12psi on an sc61.

Nobody Special

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mag00n &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lol, I'd like to hear your reasoning as to why a gsr, B16, lsvtec, "cant" run 12psi on pump gas. That is really just a silly statement that shows lack of understanding of F/I Honda's, and turbo in general. I have a lot of turbo buddys who could prove you wrong very quickly.

Also, FYI "12psi" is meaningless. 12psi on a t3 .42/48 is a lot different than 12psi on an sc61. </TD></TR></TABLE>

::sigh:: I'm talking the run of the mill t3/t04 that's on 90% of the LS/Vtec's on this board. Not some t25 or some other kazoo-sized huffer. Why do so many 'debates" on H-T end on some one's play on semantics?

M.A.R.C.

back on topic please