RACEPAK

hi guys

my engine is a d16
with vitaras
h-beam rods (which i'm not sure if they are eagle or cdm)

i'v been runing this engine for a while now,
oil pressure was good if not great (80-90 @ cold idle startup / 15-20 psi @ hot idle / 50 psi @ 3000 rpm / 70+- at full boost)
i'm using agip 10-60 racing oil
i had some ticking noises from the engine at medium loads so i opened up the engine and found that all my rod bearings were spun/wiped/crushed.

now i'm trying to find out what caused this to happen.

i masured the oil pump
rotor to housing 0.25mm(0.009in) which is out of spec (specs are 0.20 (0.007)
inner rotor to outer rotor 0.10mm

here are the pictures of the rod bearings:




i will post pictures of the crancksaft in a few minutes

thanks

Importordomestic

what were the oil clearances on the rod bearings when the engine was assembled?

RACEPAK

i actualy cant remeber it was too long ago,

Importordomestic

looks like bearing seasure to me. What does the crank look like? I there bearing material fused to the crankshaft? Your oil pressure was good but possibly your bearing clearances were a little tight. Or you had a brief moment where the oil pump cavitated and dropped oil pressure.

2k.civic.si

You have to be careful with racing oils as they usually don't have any additives in them. 10w-60??? are you serious?

ashb82

http://www.nb-cofrisa.com/docs/web_fallos_ing.PDF
google engine bearing failure i think those looks like detonation some people call it over load failure.

Importordomestic

what kind of power was that engine making?

Pay2play killa

usually #4 goes out first followed by the rest after a while; i've seen two D's die on #4 as that is the last rod in line to get any oil.

One was my built Z6 years ago, oil clearances were spot on, used ACL std bearings had probably 1500mi on the motor; it overboosted on pump gas probably detonated pushing the bearing into the crank just long enough at high enough speed to weld it and spin it to pieces

that looks like maybe the clearances were a little tight or that oil did not lubricate well enough. 10-60 is a little thick even for a D; that pump may have had a hard time pushing it through. I use rotella 15-40 non-synthetic in all my motors; it seems to be the best bang for the buck and has a lot more zinc and sulpher in it compared to gasoline oils

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

Lets clear this thread up right now, ill help you identify your problem.

10w-60

THATS DIESEL OIL, the oil passages on a honda motor arent large enough for a 60 weight oil, thats INSANE. You should have been running 5w-30 and you could have avoided this. You starved the bearings of oil, thats why they failed.

hondapowerb16a2

Agreed you only need to run heavier oil if your motor has really loose clearances 5w30 is perfect for the majority of honda builds.

RACEPAK

the cranckshaft -looks- ok it dosnt have any fused metal parts on it,
the hp goal of the engine is 400hp but i'm only @16 PSI.

the oil was on the top of my list too but i'm still not sure. it could be fake or chinese eagle rods.
i started using it since most of the guys in my country use it on their boosted setups. probably just a hype.


ill upload pics of the cranck in 5 mins

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

you would have to check the clearances with plastiguage to determine if they were too tight, but i would attribute it to the 60 weight oil, that is COMPLETELY uncalled for, its probably like molasses when the engine is hot, im curious to see if you have damage to your cam as well

JDMCRX

iTrader: (2)

Im going on your tolernces were way to tight for the motor oil you used and the bearing over heated and melted itself.

JDMCRX

iTrader: (2)

On another note check your cam journals. Ives seen alot of guys who run 20w50 and they start having head wearing issues.

lzyga09

holy **** man, i mean top fuel drag cars use use 65w90 lol ur useing 60 in a honda dam thats way to much.

RACEPAK

i'm not saying its not the oil but i know of atleast 7-10 guys that use that same oil on built daily driven d16s,

i'm not sure if the rods i had are real eagles they dont have any eagle logo on them.
thats why i opened this thread:
https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/does-all-eagle-rods-have-eagel-etching-2835636/

the right one is from the set i had in my engine: :S






here are some pics of the crank








comp 59300
cam journals are not worn but the lobes are kinda, again its a 59300 which are known to wear,

JDMCRX

iTrader: (2)

**** your crank looks good from the pics. Can u rub your nail accross it and its smoth? Or take a penny and rub it across it and check for any copper on the groves.

RACEPAK

yeah i know, it looks ok and i cant feel any scretches. but i'm still not sure if i sould reuse it or not, or maby polish it and use it... dont know yet

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

some nice deep wear marks on that cam thanks to the 60 weight

RACEPAK

they are not deep at all. its "just" metal shavings from the bearings fused on it.

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

thats called damage from the metal cycling through the engine, its pretty obvious, you can also see the heavy score marks where the cam was contacting the lifter and not having enough lubrication, im curious where did you get the idea to run 60 weight racing oil in a standard production motor?

turbociv910

why not use regular oil that everyone's had great success with?

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

lol its not even a question of why, you have to use regular oil, the engine isnt designed for race oil, race oil is designed entirely different then regular oil, some additives are missing, not to mention you have flow and lubrication problems at 50 weight, let alone 60 weight.

RACEPAK

i started using this oil since i witness other guys use it in their engines, just for the record i have 2 friend that use this oil 3 years now on daily driven d series,

question is, if i should reuse this crank or not, ill take it to a machine shop tommorow

V-SPEC 1

Your friends may also have looser clearance than yours. Crank look like it was starving for oil.