Ring End Gap - I must be STUPID
03-25-2006, 10:21 PM
#1
Member
Thread Starter
Ring End Gap - I must be STUPID
Background
B18a turbo build: 81.5mm SRP pistons w/matching JE piston rings
Block freshly bored to 81.5mm SUPPOSEDLY
OK I'm trying to get my ring end gaps right. Take the rings right out of the box,
push them to the bottom of the cylinder to get the gap reading.
HAVE NOT FILED RINGS YET AT ALL....
<U>Top Rings</U>
What I want: .015"
What I got: .017"
<U>2nd Rings</U>
What I want: .017"
What I got: .025"
Oil Rings OK.....
So the ring gaps are too large right out of the box.
I wasn't able to check the bore diameter because I don't have a bore gauge,
but I figure the machine shop knows how to do something this simple.
The pistons feel nice and snug inside the cylinders.....
MY QUESTIONS ARE:
1. Can I order 82mm piston rings (or larger?) and just file those down to fit?
2. Instructions only address the oil ring rail gaps.
What about the gap on the oil rings themselves?
Thanks for help. This is my 1st engine build....
Here's a pic of the car for viewing pleasure
B18a turbo build: 81.5mm SRP pistons w/matching JE piston rings
Block freshly bored to 81.5mm SUPPOSEDLY
OK I'm trying to get my ring end gaps right. Take the rings right out of the box,
push them to the bottom of the cylinder to get the gap reading.
HAVE NOT FILED RINGS YET AT ALL....
<U>Top Rings</U>
What I want: .015"
What I got: .017"
<U>2nd Rings</U>
What I want: .017"
What I got: .025"
Oil Rings OK.....
So the ring gaps are too large right out of the box.
I wasn't able to check the bore diameter because I don't have a bore gauge,
but I figure the machine shop knows how to do something this simple.
The pistons feel nice and snug inside the cylinders.....
MY QUESTIONS ARE:
1. Can I order 82mm piston rings (or larger?) and just file those down to fit?
2. Instructions only address the oil ring rail gaps.
What about the gap on the oil rings themselves?
Thanks for help. This is my 1st engine build....
Here's a pic of the car for viewing pleasure
03-25-2006, 10:28 PM
#2
Re: Ring End Gap - I must be STUPID (mahatma)
I would take the block to a local machine shop and have the bore measured, if you've got too much clearance between the pisons and the wall you may not want to run the pistons you have..
Get that figured out and go from there, if the piston to wall clarance ends up being ok get some bigger rings and size them.
Get that figured out and go from there, if the piston to wall clarance ends up being ok get some bigger rings and size them.
03-26-2006, 02:20 AM
#4
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: miami, fla, us
Posts: 2,412
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Ring End Gap - I must be STUPID (b16hybridsol)
make sure the rings are level when you measure them...the top ring is fine...the gaps your shooting for are on the tight side ...your talking about a really small amount with .008 of an inch
I think the gaps are fine....
I think the gaps are fine....
03-26-2006, 05:04 AM
#5
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Peg City, 204
Posts: 812
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Ring End Gap - I must be STUPID (D@nnY)
03-26-2006, 05:45 AM
#6
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: cortland, ohio, usa
Posts: 931
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
when i assembled my bottom end, i checked the gaps and they were all dead on according to what wiseco wanted. machine shops are so much more sophisticated along with manufacturers of internal parts, rings shouldnt need to much filing unless something is just not quite right.
not trying to **** ya off, just goin gby my own expierence. ive only built 2 car engines my b18 and a small block, both had perfect ring gaps out of the box same with the eninges ive built for quads and ****
not trying to **** ya off, just goin gby my own expierence. ive only built 2 car engines my b18 and a small block, both had perfect ring gaps out of the box same with the eninges ive built for quads and ****
03-26-2006, 05:54 AM
#7
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Right Here, MI, world
Posts: 1,385
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (raiden571)
Put them in from the top, and use the piston to square them up in the cylinder and retry. Like said above if too big, get some larger ones and file if needed. You can also try moving them to a different cylinder.
Trending Topics
03-26-2006, 07:03 AM
#8
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Ring End Gap - I must be STUPID (mahatma)
You CANNOT use an 82mm ring in an 81.5mm bore...it won't seat properly.
Why are you pushing the ring to the bottom of the bore to measure it?
Why are you pushing the ring to the bottom of the bore to measure it?
03-26-2006, 08:48 AM
#9
Member
Thread Starter
Re: Ring End Gap - I must be STUPID (earl)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by coneheadsracing »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Put them in from the top, and use the piston to square them up in the cylinder and retry. Like said above if too big, get some larger ones and file if needed. You can also try moving them to a different cylinder.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I did use the piston to make sure the rings were level. And I didn't think moving them to different cylinders would work because all the readings are within .001"
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You CANNOT use an 82mm ring in an 81.5mm bore...it won't seat properly.
Why are you pushing the ring to the bottom of the bore to measure it?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well ****.....that bloweth.
My Haynes manual says to push the ring near the lower end of travel in the cylinder to measure it. Doesn't really say why....?
I also read that SRP's pistons are composed of some type of alloy (silicone?) that doesn't expand much with heat. I guess that's why the gaps I calculated are smaller than most others I found when I searched - like for CP's or Wiseco's.....
So if I'm measuring correctly do I have to take this ****** back to a machine shop to be checked out....and then possibly an overbore and order new pistons & rings????
I did use the piston to make sure the rings were level. And I didn't think moving them to different cylinders would work because all the readings are within .001"
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You CANNOT use an 82mm ring in an 81.5mm bore...it won't seat properly.
Why are you pushing the ring to the bottom of the bore to measure it?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well ****.....that bloweth.
My Haynes manual says to push the ring near the lower end of travel in the cylinder to measure it. Doesn't really say why....?
I also read that SRP's pistons are composed of some type of alloy (silicone?) that doesn't expand much with heat. I guess that's why the gaps I calculated are smaller than most others I found when I searched - like for CP's or Wiseco's.....
So if I'm measuring correctly do I have to take this ****** back to a machine shop to be checked out....and then possibly an overbore and order new pistons & rings????
03-26-2006, 09:02 AM
#10
Re: Ring End Gap - I must be STUPID (mahatma)
yup, earl is right. You square the ring about an inch down the bore, and if you dont need to file file to fit rings then you have the wrong rings.
03-26-2006, 10:59 AM
#11
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: visalia, ca, U.S.A
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Ring End Gap - I must be STUPID (mahatma)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mahatma »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Background
B18a turbo build: 81.5mm SRP pistons w/matching JE piston rings
Block freshly bored to 81.5mm SUPPOSEDLY
OK I'm trying to get my ring end gaps right. Take the rings right out of the box,
push them to the bottom of the cylinder to get the gap reading.
HAVE NOT FILED RINGS YET AT ALL....
<U>Top Rings</U>
What I want: .015"
What I got: .017"
<U>2nd Rings</U>
What I want: .017"
What I got: .025"
Oil Rings OK.....
So the ring gaps are too large right out of the box.
I wasn't able to check the bore diameter because I don't have a bore gauge,
but I figure the machine shop knows how to do something this simple.
The pistons feel nice and snug inside the cylinders.....
MY QUESTIONS ARE:
1. Can I order 82mm piston rings (or larger?) and just file those down to fit?
2. Instructions only address the oil ring rail gaps.
What about the gap on the oil rings themselves?
Thanks for help. This is my 1st engine build....
Here's a pic of the car for viewing pleasure
</TD></TR></TABLE>um no! it depends if your pistons take stock honda ring packs. you need to know and you do not push the ring all the way to the bottom! you gap one ring at a time using the piston as a guide to install the rings at the correct depth. im sorry but if you do not know how to gap a piston rings maybe you should do some research before attempting to build a motor! but good luck and take your time it will pay off in the long run 
and you must know if your pistons are a high expansion piston or low if you have hirh expansion and have too tight of a piston to wall clearence you will seize your block in a heartbeat. i cant stress enough at how important it is to have correct tolerances! do it right or you will be rebuilding it again in about a week 
B18a turbo build: 81.5mm SRP pistons w/matching JE piston rings
Block freshly bored to 81.5mm SUPPOSEDLY
OK I'm trying to get my ring end gaps right. Take the rings right out of the box,
push them to the bottom of the cylinder to get the gap reading.
HAVE NOT FILED RINGS YET AT ALL....
<U>Top Rings</U>
What I want: .015"
What I got: .017"
<U>2nd Rings</U>
What I want: .017"
What I got: .025"
Oil Rings OK.....
So the ring gaps are too large right out of the box.
I wasn't able to check the bore diameter because I don't have a bore gauge,
but I figure the machine shop knows how to do something this simple.
The pistons feel nice and snug inside the cylinders.....
MY QUESTIONS ARE:
1. Can I order 82mm piston rings (or larger?) and just file those down to fit?
2. Instructions only address the oil ring rail gaps.
What about the gap on the oil rings themselves?
Thanks for help. This is my 1st engine build....
Here's a pic of the car for viewing pleasure
</TD></TR></TABLE>um no! it depends if your pistons take stock honda ring packs. you need to know and you do not push the ring all the way to the bottom! you gap one ring at a time using the piston as a guide to install the rings at the correct depth. im sorry but if you do not know how to gap a piston rings maybe you should do some research before attempting to build a motor! but good luck and take your time it will pay off in the long run and you must know if your pistons are a high expansion piston or low if you have hirh expansion and have too tight of a piston to wall clearence you will seize your block in a heartbeat. i cant stress enough at how important it is to have correct tolerances! do it right or you will be rebuilding it again in about a week
03-26-2006, 11:04 AM
#12
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: miami, fla, us
Posts: 2,412
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
bashing the guy is not needed.....theres nothing wrong with him building the motor himself and he noticed they were off.....
to all the people telling him to use bigger rings...stop posting
to all the people telling him to use bigger rings...stop posting
03-26-2006, 11:09 AM
#13
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: visalia, ca, U.S.A
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (D@nnY)
who are you talkig about? i know its not me. im telling him the truth how many times do you see guys in here after breaking their motors because of simple steps missed. im telling him what he needs to hear to save him heartache and money putting a piston in a cylinder and feeling if it is snug is not the way to build a motor and if i can give him some advice on his build i will. thats how this whole import scene is dying out because kids having the wrong info and trying stuff over and over and going broke in the process then saying imports suck. so speak up and help out no bashing here buddy
no bashing here buddy
03-26-2006, 12:48 PM
#14
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Ring End Gap - I must be STUPID (mahatma)
MY QUESTIONS ARE:
2. Instructions only address the oil ring rail gaps.
What about the gap on the oil rings themselves?
You never gap the oil rails...they are actually the oil ring. The expander between the rails is a spring and will contract to fit in the cylinder.
A little more info here...
http://www.laskeyracing.com/shop/ringgap.htm
2. Instructions only address the oil ring rail gaps.
What about the gap on the oil rings themselves?
You never gap the oil rails...they are actually the oil ring. The expander between the rails is a spring and will contract to fit in the cylinder.
A little more info here...
http://www.laskeyracing.com/shop/ringgap.htm
03-26-2006, 03:57 PM
#15
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: miami, fla, us
Posts: 2,412
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (bign2odaddy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bign2odaddy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">who are you talkig about? i know its not me. im telling him the truth how many times do you see guys in here after breaking their motors because of simple steps missed. im telling him what he needs to hear to save him heartache and money putting a piston in a cylinder and feeling if it is snug is not the way to build a motor and if i can give him some advice on his build i will. thats how this whole import scene is dying out because kids having the wrong info and trying stuff over and over and going broke in the process then saying imports suck. so speak up and help out no bashing here buddy</TD></TR></TABLE>
yes im talking to you...its fine to give him advice but your attitude is not needed.
and the whole "the import scene is dying out" save it.....
no bashing here buddy</TD></TR></TABLE>yes im talking to you...its fine to give him advice but your attitude is not needed.
and the whole "the import scene is dying out" save it.....
03-26-2006, 07:53 PM
#17
Member
Thread Starter
Re: (JDogg)
Well for most applications they would be fine....but these SRP pistons don't expand like most others, so they're really not OK, according to SRP.
I just tried measuring again, this time with the rings about 1" from the top - same results. So I've got the block & stuff in my beater, going to take it to another machine shop and have everything measured. I WILL figure this out.
Thanks for all replies. I'll keep this updated.
I just tried measuring again, this time with the rings about 1" from the top - same results. So I've got the block & stuff in my beater, going to take it to another machine shop and have everything measured. I WILL figure this out.
Thanks for all replies. I'll keep this updated.
03-26-2006, 09:17 PM
#19
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: springfield, missouri, usa
Posts: 1,683
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Re: (mahatma)
Subscribed
Very interested to hear what the problem is as I am about to build my first honda motor and its an LS with 81.5mm SRP pistons also.
When you had the block bored did you take them the pistons and an exact piston wall clearance ???
Very interested to hear what the problem is as I am about to build my first honda motor and its an LS with 81.5mm SRP pistons also.
When you had the block bored did you take them the pistons and an exact piston wall clearance ???
03-26-2006, 09:35 PM
#20
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (jfoster)
ring gaps dont have anything to do with piston expansion
like i said, as long as piston-wall clearance is good then it will be fine.
its a shitty piston anyway, so i really wouldnt worry with it.
like i said, as long as piston-wall clearance is good then it will be fine.
its a shitty piston anyway, so i really wouldnt worry with it.
03-26-2006, 11:06 PM
#21
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Bluffton/Hilton Head,SC / Ft. Lauderdale, FL, usa
Posts: 4,196
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (JDogg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
its a shitty piston anyway, so i really wouldnt worry with it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
lol!
its a shitty piston anyway, so i really wouldnt worry with it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
lol!
03-27-2006, 04:23 AM
#22
Member
Thread Starter
Re: (D@nnY)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D@nnY »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the ring gap being .007 to big is not going to hurt the motor </TD></TR></TABLE>
Would it burn a lot of oil? Blowby? This is my DD....
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ring gaps dont have anything to do with piston expansion</TD></TR></TABLE>
Care to explain this a little more?
Would it burn a lot of oil? Blowby? This is my DD....
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ring gaps dont have anything to do with piston expansion</TD></TR></TABLE>
Care to explain this a little more?
03-27-2006, 06:08 AM
#23
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (mahatma)
ring gap dosnt effect oil consumption, thats piston-wall clearance and wear/tear that causes that
srps are the same crappy shape as je, so they are going to wear just as bad as a je, and they are made from a weaker alloy than je's...
srps are the same crappy shape as je, so they are going to wear just as bad as a je, and they are made from a weaker alloy than je's...
03-27-2006, 07:08 AM
#24
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (JDogg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ring gaps dont have anything to do with piston expansion
like i said, as long as piston-wall clearance is good then it will be fine.
its a shitty piston anyway, so i really wouldnt worry with it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree with JDogg.
like i said, as long as piston-wall clearance is good then it will be fine.
its a shitty piston anyway, so i really wouldnt worry with it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree with JDogg.
03-27-2006, 07:14 AM
#25
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: miami, fla, us
Posts: 2,412
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (mahatma)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mahatma »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Would it burn a lot of oil? Blowby? This is my DD....
Care to explain this a little more?</TD></TR></TABLE>
either way theres a hole where the gaps are...the hole being .007 bigger then you want it isnt going to make it loose compresion or burn oil
Would it burn a lot of oil? Blowby? This is my DD....
Care to explain this a little more?</TD></TR></TABLE>
either way theres a hole where the gaps are...the hole being .007 bigger then you want it isnt going to make it loose compresion or burn oil
