MugenSpeclNY

I can't comment on any of the tech here, but I just wanted to say I think it's great your going for a remote setup in a TL-S. I understand a lot of peoples input of the reduced response and power capibilities when comparing to a normal in bay set-up. But come on, a remote turbo set-up on a TL-S DD?! I'm younger than most here probally, but idk to me that would be pretty mind blowing if that pulled up to a local meet *swag*.Defiantly something I atleast don't see everyday, and granted it may not be the most efficient, it def has it cool points IMHO. And would still be a blast to drive and produce some nice time slips at the track(if she sees it). Regradless if other similiar non remote set-ups may produce higher HP numbers, how you drive and control the car on the track will be the biggest factor when trying to go fast(until a point ofc) if that becomes purpose.


Basically if you have the will, the means, and the money. I say go for it!

MugenSpeclNY

Edit, double post.

UTAH TSX

Thank you, yes it has been tough getting help on this.

Tony the Tiger

I agree with everything else except for the above quote... The remote mounted turbo setups usually don't drive well, because it behaves like the car has a really large turbo, but flows and makes power like a much smaller turbo.

Maybe cheaper and easier to fabricate for novice shops or DIY'ers, but rear mounted setups will always feel like the turbo is forever chasing the motor with poor response. There is significant VE differences between hot piping and cold piping and is hard to tune seamlessly.

My prior tuning and driving experiences would include a STS 350Z, an STS Camaro V6, and another variant rear-mounted G35 with a custom twin-scoll/divided-scroll setup (dual 2" pipes merged into a divided 0.63 A/R housing. They all felt extremely laggy, almost as if you had to powershift the car to stay into some sort of boost. Sounds wicked though.

UTAH TSX

Any recommends on turbo sizing tony ???

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Did you really just say swag?

kids these days lol

real men have class, boys have swag

UTAH TSX

Ok 2 big hitters here tony and now wantboost no suggestions on turbo sizing ???
That's it I'm telling everyone I saw you two swagging last weekend LOL

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

with remote mounts it's tricky, very tricky

UTAH TSX

Do you think a 6262 is to small using a .62 AR 2.5 in v band inlet turbine housing

Yungone501

Not sure if the build has started or not but please post pics when you can. Interested in seeing where this goes.

Tony the Tiger

No particular recommendations, but I would choose the smallest turbo possible that can reach your power goal, and have the piping ceramic coated + wrapped to keep the temps decently hot.

UTAH TSX

Thanks so a 6262 comp is rated up to 700 WHP and my goal is 450 WHP so that is more like a ?

CT3X-5356 540 HP
CT3X-5558 550 HP
CT3X-6062 660 HP
CT3X-6262 700 HP

UTAH TSX

We finally got started building things and not just spending money LOL welcome my son to the adiction called BOOST, He is so worried about what holes we are going to put in the brackets because you can see them through the grill

EsotericImage

iTrader: (8)

Squirrel Performance


You can use this link to play around and learn what turbo might be best for your goals.

Its not the end all, be all of compressor maps, but it will get you to learn where you would want to be on the efficiency zone and also cross reference what turbo is close to your goals.


I found a few Bullseye Turbos which puts you right on the map. I also set it for 550hp (crank) but theres a little room left for more power. I didnt add for altitude or IC loss, Like I said, play with it to see what works for you.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

I've found the squirrel performance calculator to be a little overzealous when it comes to pressure levels... I use BorgWarners MatchBot and simply plot the pressure/airflow points on the compressor map I'm considering.


and yes, thermal management will become your best friend. at the least you need to wrap the exhaust piping leading to the turbo and run a blanket on the turbine housing. that long stretch of piping has a lot of surface area which will bleed off EGTs like crazy. I've found that a quality wrap does a slightly better job of insulating piping and containing radiant heat than ceramic coatings. MotoIq just did a big article on turbine blankets and the benefits/gains of using them with lots of imperical test data, I'll try and find it.

you don't need to worry about wrapping the charge piping since the large surface area will lower the air temp within the pipe, basically acting like a large intercooler. if you were to give the piping a brushed finish with steel wool/scotchbrite pads you'd increase the surface area even further. Depending on piping size and length you might not even need an intercooler.

you can't do much about the loss of exhaust velocity... a lot of the rear mount "kits" have the piping step down right before the turbine inlet flange in an effort to increase gas velocity entering the turbo.

Just don't forget the turbo needs its own oiling system... a small tank to hold the oil, a scavenge pump to circulate the oil, an inline filter before the pump to clean the oil, and optionally a small cooler to maintain proper oil temps.

UTAH TSX

Thanks for responding, should I use the same turbo that the MatchBot sugests or should I consider using a smaller A/R to compensate for the loss of heat energy ?

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

The nice thing about MatchBot is it also allows you to plot turbine wheel size and turbine housing size. something other calculators don't allow.

it will only plot BorgWarner turbos, the S and EFR line... but again you can take the airflow/pressure points it generates and plot them on any compressor map you want. the turbine side is only BorgWarners turbine wheels and housings but that data can be interpreted into other brand wheels and housings by a few people on here.

the efr line would do well in a remote setup due to the lightweight/low inertia turbine wheel and ceramic ball bearings but they aren't cheap and must have water lines...

also the titanium aluminide turbine wheel material is very brittle at low EGTs than other more common wheel materials. As the BorgWarner rep explained to me if the wheel encounters FOD at low EGTs is more likely to crack and/or break as opposed to the possibility of just bending at higher EGTs. I don't remember what he classified as low and high.

The S series line is also a good option at a decent price and being journal bearing means no water lines.

It all depends on the budget.... but I would use the MatchBot to generate more accurate data and just use the output points on other brand maps. MatchBot also allows for air fuel ratio and EGT inputs so you can see how the lower EGTs of a remote turbo will effect turbo performance.

Although regardless if it were me I'd run an exposed junction EGT probe to a gauge or datalogger right before the turbine inlet so you can gauge the temperature drop compared to a more conventional turbo location and use that data to gauge turbo operation and efficiency.

UTAH TSX

Thanks wantboost I've been playing with the Matchbot (it's a little over my head I'm new to this)
We are going to use the Comp turbo oil less turbo so we don't have to have an oil scavenge pump tank feed and return lines, we just need water lines Comp Turbo - Oil Less
I have a hard time comparing Borg warner turbos to the Comp turbos, do I match up inducer and exducer wheel sizes is that the main thing ?

MugenSpeclNY

Class/swag all the same my man :p, just a different synonym of the generation gap. Sorry for showing my age haha. Don't worry wantboost, I'm not into stance/flush mumbo jumbo that's not "class/swag" a Boosted TL-S though that's class. So don't fret, all hope is not lost on my generation. Hahaha :p

Also just wanted to note, on me saying it would produce good time slips. I was more comparing to the avg joe daily driver, even in the car scene. Not as a comparison between remote/in bay set-up. A 11-12 second pass is still really fast compared to the general population imho. But I 100% agree with where your coming from tony, driveabity would lack, and wouldn't have that "pep" that is commonly desired on a street car.


Goodluck again to OP!!

UTAH TSX

Well my son got the intercooler mounted it took him days to make the brackets he was so concerned with how shiny they were he did his own welding and all I'm teaching he is doing all the work, looks good I'm proud of him, I'm still struggling with the turbo selection

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

You're gonna have a hell of a time running water lines that long... the pressure and flow loss over that much distance will be huge and could potentially impact engine cooling performance.

it's hard to say if you need to go smaller to keep pressure and velocity up or go slightly bigger to maintain flow volume...

also be sure that you shield the lines against damage from random road debris, last thing you want to do is rip/tear/puncture a water line in a place you might not see it. either run braided lines with sleeves over them or (my preference) run hard lines for most of the length of the car, mainly in the exhaust tunnel or tucked up with the fuel lines. then run flexible line the short distance from the engine bay to where the hard lines are and then from hard lines to turbo.

this will greatly reduce the chance of damage and leaks since there's a minimal amount of joints to leak.

as far as the maps, compressor pressure and flow points will be the same regardless of the turbo so simply plot them on any map you want. if you look at each data section in MatchBot you'll see a little blue circle with a question mark in it. hover over it and a window will pop up telling you what it is, what it means, and why it's important/how to edit the values.

the more important thing is the turbine side plot and the turbine swallowing ratio (which basically dictates how much exhaust gas is being sent through the wastegate for a given pressure and rpm level and a specific turbine wheel and housing size)

UTAH TSX

We have scrapped the romote mount and decided to go with Borg Warner EFR turbo with internal waste gate this is the best I can match up on the Matchbot what do you think http://www.turbos.bwauto.com//afterm...6_wrsin=92044&

UTAH TSX

Try this link BorgWarner MatchBot

D-Rob

Ditching the remote mount idea is the best thing you've talked about entirely!

UTAH TSX

We are looking at the BW EFR 8374 with T4 twin scroll .92 AR internal wastegate, I have built a k24 with the 7670 and was very impressed with it. do you with the large brains out there think this will be a good match for our DD 500ish whp TYPE-S