TypeR1558

What kind of top notch/high quality parts do you recommend puttin in (bottom end/block sleeve) for a 100 shot plus some other power adders?

I want to build the car before it breaks (dont want to risk serious damage). Already have the juice on, just wanna do the beefing, so I feel comfortable that the motor will last long.

Also, how much does a job like the one you are recommending cost? Just to give me an idea.

Thanks,
Jon

TypeR1558

bump please

NCSTIdriver

Golden Eagle Sleeved Block
Eagle Rods
JE 10.5.1 compression pistons
Cometic Headgasket

Some type of engine managment and an hour or two on the dyno. ... Nitrous doesn't kill motors poor tuning does.

Broken Gearbox

just get some forged pistons ..then check out that Hondata Nitrous Control thing..and go get it dyno tuned

PM-Performance

why would he lwoer his compression ?thats retarded.
id deff stay same compression or make it higher, i think like 11.0:1 would be nice.
you really dont need to build , but if you want to you can handle more juice thatta boy
i went JE pistons, Darton Sleeves, and Eagle rods on my build up , I plan on juicing again on top of the turbo

TypeR1558

Anyone got a link to the Hondata n20 control?

TypeR1558

206,

Turbo + N20 - NO Lag, sweet!

JE pistons, Darton Sleeves, and Eagle rods

Are the Darton and Golden Eagle Sleeves of equal quality?

So whats the deal with this new Hondata for n20?

jon

Broken Gearbox

http://www.hondata.com/featuresnitrous.html

TypeR1558

206,

What do you think of that honda for n20? Seems like it has a lot of features that I have in the Jacobs Mastermind, but there is one sentence on that page that made me think:

"At the same time the ECU switches the Nitrous on, it will supply an additional amount of fuel to the injectors"

If I am running direct port, aren't I already gonna get the additional fuel through the intake manifold when the system is armed. Really curious to know if that Hondata will benefit me. Only thing I am concerned about is that..... I dont want to be running too rich when off the bottle from the aftermarket pump (dont know how much it is affecting me. I was planning to have complete control of my timing in the cockpit after installing the mastermind.... but I really want to make sure i have a perfect air/fuel ratio ON and OFF the bottle.

Jon

b18cTurbo

i did more then 50 blotle in a summer whit 80-125 wet shot in my old civic gsr stock block whit no prob at all ,10.8compression(b16a piston swap)
you need direct port,msd6a,spark plug ngk1 deg colder,maybe clutch but youl see,exaust,stock gsr pump ,egt is a must if you wanna save your motor cuz n20 generate more heat

sweet

iTrader: (5)

this is what i ran last year for awhile:

100-125 shot DP system
Walbro fuel pump
Eagle H beam rods
11:1 forged pistons with matching rings
SS Ferrea valves
all new OEM bearings, gaskets, seals etc.
Cometic stock style HG
ARP headstuds
STOCK sleeves (B18C motor)

you don't want to low of a C/R, 10.5-11.5:1 is good. also stock sleeves are fine as long as the ignition timing and fuel is correct. if you're too lean and/or the timing is too aggressive than you could say goodbye to a piston or sleeve.
you can use the stock ECU with ignition retard controls for timing while injecting, but the Hondata with the N2O features is the way to go if you've got the $$.
full ignition system should be used along with the high flow fuel pump, but i'm sure you have all that already since you have the N2O system.

bottlefedb18c1

i am going to be going with 11:1 compretion eagle rods stock sleeves built head and a 75x75 dual stage with s100 or maybe with s200 dont know yet

NCSTIdriver

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr206 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why would he lwoer his compression ?thats retarded.
id deff stay same compression or make it higher, i think like 11.0:1 would be nice.
you really dont need to build , but if you want to you can handle more juice thatta boy
i went JE pistons, Darton Sleeves, and Eagle rods on my build up , I plan on juicing again on top of the turbo </TD></TR></TABLE>

I was under the impression that Stock type R's compression is 10.5.1 oops

TypeR1558

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sweet &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">this is what i ran last year for awhile:

100-125 shot DP system
Walbro fuel pump
Eagle H beam rods
11:1 forged pistons with matching rings
SS Ferrea valves
all new OEM bearings, gaskets, seals etc.
Cometic stock style HG
ARP headstuds
STOCK sleeves (B18C motor)

you don't want to low of a C/R, 10.5-11.5:1 is good. also stock sleeves are fine as long as the ignition timing and fuel is correct. if you're too lean and/or the timing is too aggressive than you could say goodbye to a piston or sleeve.
you can use the stock ECU with ignition retard controls for timing while injecting, but the Hondata with the N2O features is the way to go if you've got the $$.
full ignition system should be used along with the high flow fuel pump, but i'm sure you have all that already since you have the N2O system.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeh, I have:

NOS direct port (80 shot now, 100 soon)
NOS bottle heater
NOS remote bottle opener
NOS purge valve
Holly fuel pump
MSD digital 6 plus ignition (with 2-step)
MSD spark p. wires
MSD window switch
OEM JDM platinum plugs
Jacobs Nitrous Mastermind (not installed)

Just trying to see whether the Hondata N20 offers anything more then the Mastermind does. Many have said the stock bottom will be fine, but will wear out over time. I was thinking of just building it now - hoping maybe it would take longer to wear out. I guess I am looking for 2 things:

To know whether I have everything to tune my car with n20 perfectly (on/off) the bottle.

To do my best to prevent serious engine damage (i figured a rebuild would make the bottom end stronger, and much more tollerant)

Jon

AKUFC

Well my motor isnt a b series but hopefully it gets answered

I bought a f23a1 to replace my 180k f22 in my ex slotec accord. You think the cast iron sleeves will hold fine trying to hit 100-150 DP kit?

TypeR1558

Anyone able to answer the questions?

sweet

iTrader: (5)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AKUFC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well my motor isnt a b series but hopefully it gets answered

I bought a f23a1 to replace my 180k f22 in my ex slotec accord. You think the cast iron sleeves will hold fine trying to hit 100-150 DP kit?</TD></TR></TABLE>

does the F23 use the same sleeves as the H22/H23?
if so i've heard that the sleeves are a bit weaker than the B series sleeves, but don't quote me on that cause i'm not too knowledgeable with the H series.
if it's in good shape stock i don't see why an 80-100 shot won't work well with the F23. but if you decide to use aftermarket pistons when you build (if you build it) then you'll need to resleeve the block to accept the forged pistons (IF the sleeves are the same on the F23 as they are on the H22/H23).

sweet

iTrader: (5)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TypeR1558 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anyone able to answer the questions? </TD></TR></TABLE>

the Jacob N2O Mastermind works well, very nice features. if you have that then you really don't need a Hondata system with N2O control, though the Hondata will be able to control both the N/A performance and the N2O injection performance.
whereas the JNM only controls N2O injection.

with what you have now i'm sure the N2O system will be reliable and work well without damaging the internals of the motor. use NGK copper plugs, #7 at least.
also be careful with the ignition timing cause that could make or break you setup.
as well as the fuel jet and fuel psi, make sure that's ok too.

the setup should work great if used correctly.

TypeR1558

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sweet &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the Jacob N2O Mastermind works well, very nice features. if you have that then you really don't need a Hondata system with N2O control, though the Hondata will be able to control both the N/A performance and the N2O injection performance. whereas the JNM only controls N2O injection. </TD></TR></TABLE>

My main concern is that my upgraded fuel system for the n20 should not affect my daily driving performance. I am fussy So I would like to ensure that I have a perfect air/fuel ratio on the bottle (which seems possible), but also a perfect air/fuel ratio off the bottle. For some reason it bothers me that I am running rich off the bottle, and that my fuel pressure is in the high 40's-low 50's. I don't want to run overly rich when daily driving. It doesn't feel right, and the car wasn't designed to be run like that. 95% of the time that I am driving the car I will not be using the nitrous, so I want the car to be running nicely off the bottle as well. I guess what I need to find out is if Hondata N20 controler is the type of unit that will satify this. The only way I could think of accomplishing my goal with the stuff I have now is to compensate by advancing the timing.. but i dont know if that will really affect fuel pressure as much as just give me more power. I dont know I'm all over the place, and probably way off.

Additionally, after looking at the Hondata N20 unit... it seems like it was only designed to work with dry setups. I am running DP, and I dont know if it would help me in any way.

Man I wish I could just trust shops, but after so many bad experiences, I am on the defensive with shops. I don't want to do my own work, but I just wish I could trust a shop to tune this car the way I wanted it. I'm gonna give a new shop a try after I move, but even when I talked to them on the phone they hinted that n20 will eventually wear out the motor, and they dont recommend squeezing a 75 shot on a stock honda motor, as it will wear out over time or could break (hinting liability issues). Not saying I want them to just say, yes, we could do it perfect, nooooo problem. If they are telling the truth, and n20 will wear the motor out over time that is FINE. I will rebuild. However, I want to find a shop that will do everything they can to really get this thing running the way I want, and I just keep noticing a pattern of "more money, less work" with the shops.

Jon

Modified by TypeR1558 at 2:46 PM 5/16/2003


Modified by TypeR1558 at 2:51 PM 5/16/2003

AKUFC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sweet &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

does the F23 use the same sleeves as the H22/H23?
if so i've heard that the sleeves are a bit weaker than the B series sleeves, but don't quote me on that cause i'm not too knowledgeable with the H series.
if it's in good shape stock i don't see why an 80-100 shot won't work well with the F23. but if you decide to use aftermarket pistons when you build (if you build it) then you'll need to resleeve the block to accept the forged pistons (IF the sleeves are the same on the F23 as they are on the H22/H23). </TD></TR></TABLE>

Not sure about that, looks like some more research is in order. The engine is in phenominal condition, 6k miles on it.

Thanks for the reply.

sweet

iTrader: (5)

you can run 40-44 psi for the fuel, just a bit above stock. that way it'll allow close to stock fuel consumption, if using a stock ECU program and injectors. when i ran my DP system i only used a highflowing pump, along with stock injectors, stock ECU and stock FPR. it ran about 48 psi with the Walbro pump and stock FPR.
that way the motor doesn't comsume lots of extra fuel while driving normal. then when the switch is flipped for the N2O injection the fuel pump will be able to provide all the fuel needed to mix with the N2O, and the JNM will control what rpm it starts, how much right away, and what rpm it shuts off. and for ignition timing, the JNM can dial in 0-15 degrees of retard so you can set it where you want for the correct injection size.

there's quite a few shops that can't be trusted with their work, especially when i comes to good work for a reasonable amount of $$. i do almost all my own work, cept for machine work and the like which i have done professionally by a local guy. that way i know it's done right or even done wrong, and then i know what to correct if there are any problems.

BTW where are you located?

i'm from the PA/NJ area.

TypeR1558

I'm in CA. I don't know man... this **** is all confusing me. Let's talk PM.