sneakypete

I was just wondering if anyone has dealt with raver motorsports in Visalia, CA. My buddy wants to get his hondata tuned. He has a turbocharged LS. From what I've read they only do street tuning. Has this changed at all? Although street tuning is necessary to make the power the dyno is necessary.

sneakypete

Bump

HYBRID_H@TCH

only street tunning..no dyno there..vern does a pretty good job.

Cyphear

Read this post. I sure as hell wouldn't trust him after reading this.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=705742

RMS

http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm#WORKSHEET

RC Engineering must be wrong, right?

I don't care how much HP you make...it's all about duty cycle and air/fuel ratio. RC's calcs work out pretty close to what we see on the dyno.

PHiZ

I've collaboarted on projects with Vernon, he is a very sharp guy, and I highly respect his opinions.

-PHiZ

blundar

Of the people I've come into contact with from PGMFI, Vernon is among the smarter and most intellectually competent. We have had extensive technical discussions regarding many of the neat toys that he/his shop use. Most of them involve nitrous, and almost all are run on street gas. The unique toys that he has developed for the most part are not as much techinically revolutionary as frighteningly simple and effective. He uses established technology to effectively solve some serious tuning issues. Props.

As for the street vs. dyno tuning... The main reason Vernon doesn't use DIY-ECU stuff and requires the use of Hondata is DATALOGGING. Accurate, reproducible datalogging is KEY to tuning on the street. EGT+Wideband+Accelerometer(g-sensor)+RPM+MAP+TPS logged over time give you arguably a much better picture of what is going on with the motor because part throttle conditions can be effectively tuned too.

As for that lame thread, look at the baboons posting in it. Geniuses are often misunderstood when they talk to plebians. In this case, a true tuner was misunderstood talking to a bunch of punk ricers.

If I lived in Cali, I'd look to Vernon to tune my car, without any doubt. I don't, so I have to be content to exchange ideas and try to help a pioneer in the engine management field keep moving forward.

In short, fear not.

toxicshit

i think that blundar is right. if you datalog EGT, Wideband, G sensor, RPM, MAP, TPS you can tune a engine on what it does on the street ( and also how the driver uses the car. his behaivior )

so i think it will work verry nicely.

BIG DADDY2

VERN AT RAVER IS AWESOM WITH HONDATA HE DID MY 94 INTEGRA WITH A SINGLE 70 SHOT OF JUICE AND IT IS GOOD FOR 12'S OH YA DAILY DRIVER FULL INTERIOR

accordfreak

vernon tuned my car first time around at 9psi.. ran great. then I had st00pid looked at my tuned 9psi map to tune to 15psi and he said i already have a good map and just needed to tune for higher boost. so for vernon. very helpful..great price too

JDogg

he took about 9 months to build our ECHC spec race motor, b20vtec. it made **** for power (190hp and 128tq... where as our stock b20vtec.. that raver also built, made 183hp and 138tq) and after 3000miles droped a valve


:edit: look down to see what vernon had to say......... it was basicly a miscomunication between him, the owner of the engine and me.


Modified by JDogg at 7:55 AM 1/6/2004

VaporTrail

I've dealt with vernon over many years, I have to say he's one of the guys in this industry that knows what's going on and what he's talking about. Try to remember, this IS the internet, you only get half the story here... keep that in mind when you see bashing posts.

baphomet

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blundar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
As for that lame thread, look at the baboons posting in it. Geniuses are often misunderstood when they talk to plebians. In this case, a true tuner was misunderstood talking to a bunch of punk ricers.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I take offense to you grouping all of the people in that thread together. I responded to <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Reilly &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You read it right. I had this discussion with a guy that owns an import shop in the central valley. I was educated on the subject. I was told that my car and Kaj's car didn't actually make 300+whp, because you can't make more than 250 "real" whp without a rising rate fuel pressure. So with my Hondata, 550's, SC34 turbo on my GSR I am only making 250 "real" hp. I am so depressed. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Now he stepped in and explained what happened .....Internet misinformation / misunderstandings.

There is no reason to assume we are all part of the plebeian mass.

RMS

massive thanks to the guys that backed us up here.

the only thing i can say to JDogg: the build did take WAYYY TOOOOO LONGGGG (the result of a motorcycle accident that left two plates and thirteen screws in my smart wrist (right one ). most shop activity stopped for several months while i healed up, and pete's engine build sat idle for a long time. i was very sorry and understand completely his frustration on this point.
i took NO deposit (granted, delivery is far more important, but i wasn't hiding with his $ either).
i don't think a NA 10.5:1 engine producing nearly 200whp is "**** for power".
last: we checked valve to valve clearance knowing it would be an issue and gave strict instructions not to increase cam overlap more than 2degrees from neutral...he chose to go 4 degrees, and the result of dropping a valve is not unexpected.
he was happy enough with the first Crvtec he purchased from us to have us build this second one. i feel for him; losing an expensive engine sucks, and he really does seem like a pretty cool guy regardless.

PHiZ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slashDEVslashNULL &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I take offense to you grouping all of the people in that thread together. I responded to

There is no reason to assume we are all part of the plebeian mass.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's too late, I already converted blundar to the fBSD side, he will be forever superior to a mere linux user, buahahahhaha.

-PHiZ

JDogg

vernon.. yes the first motor did very well and if it werent for bad cam gears it would still be alive. we made 183hp and 138tq in that motor with ctr cams.

i didnt know about the accident... good to hear you recoverd.

i did the tuning on pete's motor.. the only instructions he gave me was no more than 4 cam deg advance on the intake side. i never got the instructions about the overlap. the engine made best power at +4 cam deg on the intake and 0 on the exhaust. it ran for a while like this, and made 190hp and 128tq.. we did better than that on the stock motor. from the results of the old motor we were expecting alot more from this one. we spent alot of time tuning this motor to make sure it was right. i guess pete's oversight about the overlap thing costed him the motor.

as far as i know pete has not pulled the head..... he got a girlfriend and we all know what happens after that. hopefully i can get over there soon to rip it all apart and see what happened.

i owe vernon an apology, the issues weren't explained to me and the droped valve was an over sight of the owner, NOT vernon's fault. i guess we can blame the long build on a motorcycle accident. the first motor (stock botom end/stock head b20/vtec) we got from him had over 30k miles of living hell at 8500 rpms before a cam gear slipped and bent a valve. the hondata he orignally sent to us with a base program ran very well on the street, but the aem ems we put on it after the chip burner died ran better

VaporTrail

so since you have changed your tune, how about removing your initial comments, which are completely different?

baphomet

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PHiZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It's too late, I already converted blundar to the fBSD side, he will be forever superior to a mere linux user, buahahahhaha.

-PHiZ</TD></TR></TABLE>
Bastard, your always one step ahead!

RMS

thank you for the reply...it seems few people have the heart to amend the things they've said on the net.
i really don't want hard feelings with pete, and we're still up to help him in any way we can.

N2OTEGRA

i have never in my life heard of taking a stock honda ecu and running a second set of injectors.a total of 8 injectors the first for injectors running and have the second set come on as you get to let say 90% duty cycle and you cant even feel transition. or a board that allows you to have 4 different tunes lets say a street 91 octane, and a street 100 then having a track 91 octane, and a track 100 octane you caould have what ever you wanted when you wanted. or a hands free nitrous set up. hit a switch launch your car and hold on make the juice turn on when ever you want with many fail safe features. verns nitrous setup by far has gave me more than i ever thought i would have. make a long story short vern is like a bill gates of hondata,ecu and engine work

N2OTEGRA

YOUR NAME SPEAKS FOR IT SELF I GUESS YOU. DO YOU ALL WAYS BELIEVE WHAT YOU cypHEAR?

Reilly

I feel the need to respond to this post, as the person who started the other thread.

I have a disagreement with Vern reguarding hp, not his tuning skills or knowledge. I have heard nothing but good things about his cars and workmanship.

Hope this helps.

N2OTEGRA

if you wanted your car dyno tuned vern could most likely do it.he can give you what ever you need.just give them a call at raver motorsports in visalia.

sneakypete

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by N2OTEGRA &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you wanted your car dyno tuned vern could most likely do it.he can give you what ever you need.just give them a call at raver motorsports in visalia.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I gave Vernon a call and I must say he does know his stuff. We talked for about 15 minutes and he was very helpful. The only downside is the closest dyno is in Bakersfield. Does anyone know if there are any dynos around the visalia, fresno, madera area that have reasonable hourly rates? Vern says he likes to street tune the cars then if we'd like we could go to the dyno to make some pulls. If anyone knows of any dynos please let me know.


Thanks

N2OTEGRA

let vern street tune your car you will love it i had my car tunned on street and it feels pretty awesome.we are going to dyno tune it this weekend but i am not going to get that much more out of it than i have allready.