Questions about Garrett .42/.48 on a honda
11-30-2009, 11:41 PM
#1
$cat /dev/urandom
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Thornton, colorado, usa
Posts: 3,152
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
Questions about Garrett .42/.48 on a honda
I just bought a brand new garrett .42/.48 turbo from a guy on H-T, and i have some questions about it, given I am a newb to FI in some respects.
First, I have some pictures to go along with my questions down below:
O2 housing that came with the turbo, w/ wastegate flap:
2. The cold side:
3. hot side:
4. The strange exhaust manifold flange:
5. Water Cooled?
6. Other side of water cooling?
7. .42 AR cold side
8. .48 AR hot side:
1.: This turbo is clearly set up for some sort of stock vehicle. Any guesses as to what?
2. the exhaust manifold flange in #4 looks decidedly non standard. Am i correct in this assumption, and if so, is this a common issue, and is there an adapter or do people make manifolds that fit this layout? What is this style of flange called, if anything?
3. The wastegate situation.. I would much rather use a external wastegate, but does that mean i need to be plugging the hole on the hot side if i am not going to use the o2 housing, or are there 5 bolt manifolds that account for this issue?
4. I have been reading up on water & oil turbos, and have read that it can be run without the water. I don't recall seeing many hondas running this style of turbo, so can i just omit the water and plug the holes and run oil only, or are there examples of hooking up a honda to use the water cooling system in some way?
5. Am i going to need an oil restrictor plate or is it good to just run a -3AN line from a oil filter sandwich plate to it, or is this also a nonstandard setup?
I plan to run this on a completely stock block d16a6 looking for around 200 whp, and I have been looking at a Spoolin Performance tubular log manifold/downpipe kit, but i am worried about the exhaust flange and the "sorta" internal wastegate situation. any thoughts??
Thanks for the help
First, I have some pictures to go along with my questions down below:
O2 housing that came with the turbo, w/ wastegate flap:
2. The cold side:
3. hot side:
4. The strange exhaust manifold flange:
5. Water Cooled?
6. Other side of water cooling?
7. .42 AR cold side
8. .48 AR hot side:
1.: This turbo is clearly set up for some sort of stock vehicle. Any guesses as to what?
2. the exhaust manifold flange in #4 looks decidedly non standard. Am i correct in this assumption, and if so, is this a common issue, and is there an adapter or do people make manifolds that fit this layout? What is this style of flange called, if anything?
3. The wastegate situation.. I would much rather use a external wastegate, but does that mean i need to be plugging the hole on the hot side if i am not going to use the o2 housing, or are there 5 bolt manifolds that account for this issue?
4. I have been reading up on water & oil turbos, and have read that it can be run without the water. I don't recall seeing many hondas running this style of turbo, so can i just omit the water and plug the holes and run oil only, or are there examples of hooking up a honda to use the water cooling system in some way?
5. Am i going to need an oil restrictor plate or is it good to just run a -3AN line from a oil filter sandwich plate to it, or is this also a nonstandard setup?
I plan to run this on a completely stock block d16a6 looking for around 200 whp, and I have been looking at a Spoolin Performance tubular log manifold/downpipe kit, but i am worried about the exhaust flange and the "sorta" internal wastegate situation. any thoughts??
Thanks for the help
12-01-2009, 06:48 AM
#2
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Questions about Garrett .42/.48 on a honda
1. EDIT (thanks to Phil) Chrysler turbo
2. special t3 chrysler flange. dimensions:
3. dont use the o2 housing and your downpipe will block off the hole on the turbine.
4. you should use the water to extend the life of your turbo. some people dont run the lines but on a daily you should. water cooling is very common especially on oem turbo cars.
5. -3an should be fine, no restrictor
6. spoolin is good stuff but you may want to double check your turbine outlet flange to make sure you get the correct downpipe. see post #10 for links to buying the correct turbine flanges
2. special t3 chrysler flange. dimensions:
3. dont use the o2 housing and your downpipe will block off the hole on the turbine.
4. you should use the water to extend the life of your turbo. some people dont run the lines but on a daily you should. water cooling is very common especially on oem turbo cars.
5. -3an should be fine, no restrictor
6. spoolin is good stuff but you may want to double check your turbine outlet flange to make sure you get the correct downpipe. see post #10 for links to buying the correct turbine flanges
Last edited by dpetro1; 12-02-2009 at 05:23 AM.
12-01-2009, 07:00 AM
#3
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Questions about Garrett .42/.48 on a honda
hmm, i guess the more i look at that turbine inlet the less it looks like a standard t3. can you take some measurements and report back?
12-01-2009, 08:24 AM
#4
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: VT, USA
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Questions about Garrett .42/.48 on a honda
I have a very similar turbo on my B16. However mine is a t3 flange and off a saab. Yours is different on the manifold side and intake of the turbo. It should be a good turbo for you, and i would definatly run water to it. What i did is just looped the coolant from the Fast Idle valve. Instead of going directly into the IM i detoured it through the turbo then to the IM. I hope this helps, i dont know what your going to do about the exhaust flange...maybe reweld a t3 flange on it?
12-01-2009, 09:59 AM
#6
Re: Questions about Garrett .42/.48 on a honda
I just bought a brand new garrett .42/.48 turbo from a guy on H-T, and i have some questions about it, given I am a newb to FI in some respects.
First, I have some pictures to go along with my questions down below:
1.: This turbo is clearly set up for some sort of stock vehicle. Any guesses as to what?
[b]It's from a chrysler[\b]
2. the exhaust manifold flange in #4 looks decidedly non standard. Am i correct in this assumption, and if so, is this a common issue, and is there an adapter or do people make manifolds that fit this layout? What is this style of flange called, if anything?
The 4th hole needs to be drilled... you should have asked I would've done it before I sent it out
3. The wastegate situation.. I would much rather use a external wastegate, but does that mean i need to be plugging the hole on the hot side if i am not going to use the o2 housing, or are there 5 bolt manifolds that account for this issue?
Yes you'd have to get that flap brazed shut. It's not ideal though... you'd probobly be better off just getting a good quality internal WG Actuator.
4. I have been reading up on water & oil turbos, and have read that it can be run without the water. I don't recall seeing many hondas running this style of turbo, so can i just omit the water and plug the holes and run oil only, or are there examples of hooking up a honda to use the water cooling system in some way?
Definately do the water cooling that turbo will run hot as it's pretty restrictive. there are kits from B&R Fittings that just use the front coolant drain plug in the block to feed coolant and return it to the radiator I believe.
5. Am i going to need an oil restrictor plate or is it good to just run a -3AN line from a oil filter sandwich plate to it, or is this also a nonstandard setup?
just like any other turbo no one can really tell you... even the manufacturer will only tell you what oil psi you want at the turbo... there is no Use X restrictor with X turbo... different cars will be producing different oil pressures
I plan to run this on a completely stock block d16a6 looking for around 200 whp, and I have been looking at a Spoolin Performance tubular log manifold/downpipe kit, but i am worried about the exhaust flange and the "sorta" internal wastegate situation. any thoughts??
[b]You should have asked... I have one of those for sale as well and totally would've/would do a good package price... You really only need the log manifold... that exhaust flange is actually pretty good an makes it pretty easy to bolt up a MUCH less expensive down pipe... a local muffler shop would probably make you a DP from the exhaust flange back to the cat back for 100-150 bucks at most. Also that turbo is soo small that there's really no need for a 3" dp.[\b]
Thanks for the help
First, I have some pictures to go along with my questions down below:
1.: This turbo is clearly set up for some sort of stock vehicle. Any guesses as to what?
[b]It's from a chrysler[\b]
2. the exhaust manifold flange in #4 looks decidedly non standard. Am i correct in this assumption, and if so, is this a common issue, and is there an adapter or do people make manifolds that fit this layout? What is this style of flange called, if anything?
The 4th hole needs to be drilled... you should have asked I would've done it before I sent it out
3. The wastegate situation.. I would much rather use a external wastegate, but does that mean i need to be plugging the hole on the hot side if i am not going to use the o2 housing, or are there 5 bolt manifolds that account for this issue?
Yes you'd have to get that flap brazed shut. It's not ideal though... you'd probobly be better off just getting a good quality internal WG Actuator.
4. I have been reading up on water & oil turbos, and have read that it can be run without the water. I don't recall seeing many hondas running this style of turbo, so can i just omit the water and plug the holes and run oil only, or are there examples of hooking up a honda to use the water cooling system in some way?
Definately do the water cooling that turbo will run hot as it's pretty restrictive. there are kits from B&R Fittings that just use the front coolant drain plug in the block to feed coolant and return it to the radiator I believe.
5. Am i going to need an oil restrictor plate or is it good to just run a -3AN line from a oil filter sandwich plate to it, or is this also a nonstandard setup?
just like any other turbo no one can really tell you... even the manufacturer will only tell you what oil psi you want at the turbo... there is no Use X restrictor with X turbo... different cars will be producing different oil pressures
I plan to run this on a completely stock block d16a6 looking for around 200 whp, and I have been looking at a Spoolin Performance tubular log manifold/downpipe kit, but i am worried about the exhaust flange and the "sorta" internal wastegate situation. any thoughts??
[b]You should have asked... I have one of those for sale as well and totally would've/would do a good package price... You really only need the log manifold... that exhaust flange is actually pretty good an makes it pretty easy to bolt up a MUCH less expensive down pipe... a local muffler shop would probably make you a DP from the exhaust flange back to the cat back for 100-150 bucks at most. Also that turbo is soo small that there's really no need for a 3" dp.[\b]
Thanks for the help
12-01-2009, 11:13 AM
#7
$cat /dev/urandom
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Thornton, colorado, usa
Posts: 3,152
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
Re: Questions about Garrett .42/.48 on a honda
Thanks everyone for all the help. The seller chimmed in here (NonovUrbizniz) and has been a great seller, for the record. I knew there was some strangeness about this turbo when I bought it, and he has been more than helpful in the process.
yeah, I saw what you had for sale. The manifold you have for sale would still require drilling of the exhaust housing, but that is no big deal. I thought the exhaust housing looked weird when I saw the pic, but the price was right and I expected I would have to do some work to get this all working anyway.
I will check out the B&R fittings place for the water cooling setup.. any ideas as to thread pitch or fitting size?
I obviously want to do this the easiest way possible, and my current thought is to use this http://www.spoolinperformance.com/st...eld-p-130.html so I could theoretically use the manifold you have in your FS picture without having to deal with the internal WG on the o2 housing. Then drill the exhaust housing to fit the exhaust manifold.
I'll post up some more later tonight when I have more time.
Originally Posted by NonovUrbizniz
I have one of those for sale as well and totally would've/would do a good package price... You really only need the log manifold... that exhaust flange is actually pretty good an makes it pretty easy to bolt up a MUCH less expensive down pipe... a local muffler shop would probably make you a DP from the exhaust flange back to the cat back for 100-150 bucks at most. Also that turbo is soo small that there's really no need for a 3" dp
I will check out the B&R fittings place for the water cooling setup.. any ideas as to thread pitch or fitting size?
I obviously want to do this the easiest way possible, and my current thought is to use this http://www.spoolinperformance.com/st...eld-p-130.html so I could theoretically use the manifold you have in your FS picture without having to deal with the internal WG on the o2 housing. Then drill the exhaust housing to fit the exhaust manifold.
I'll post up some more later tonight when I have more time.
Trending Topics
12-02-2009, 04:29 AM
#9
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 352
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Questions about Garrett .42/.48 on a honda
I used that same turbo on my D16 and my setup was pretty cheap at the time so my exhaust wasnt even a full 2.5", it flowed into a 2.25" pipe so power was restricted with that and my head and intake were stock as well.
On stock internals I was tuned for 10psi and made around 193WHP but at the time I was using that internal wastegate and it spiked to around 14psi with a stock map sensor and I melted my #3 piston so with 8.8CR Wiseco pistons and eagle rods and stock head I made 233WHP & 226WTQ @ 16psi.
This setup was still very fun as my daily driver and the turbo spooled very quickly. I did have the internal wastegate welded shut and bought a external wastegate. IMO it made a huge difference, so if you didn't already buy a manifold I would consider buying one that is compatible with an external. I personally did run a restrictor just because of all the things I saw online about too much oil pressure and I also did run water lines that I got from Tuner Toys but I think they just went out of business recently.
Check out my thread on TurboD16.com
http://www.turbod16.com/viewtopic.ph...t=34775&hilit=
On stock internals I was tuned for 10psi and made around 193WHP but at the time I was using that internal wastegate and it spiked to around 14psi with a stock map sensor and I melted my #3 piston so with 8.8CR Wiseco pistons and eagle rods and stock head I made 233WHP & 226WTQ @ 16psi.
This setup was still very fun as my daily driver and the turbo spooled very quickly. I did have the internal wastegate welded shut and bought a external wastegate. IMO it made a huge difference, so if you didn't already buy a manifold I would consider buying one that is compatible with an external. I personally did run a restrictor just because of all the things I saw online about too much oil pressure and I also did run water lines that I got from Tuner Toys but I think they just went out of business recently.
Check out my thread on TurboD16.com
http://www.turbod16.com/viewtopic.ph...t=34775&hilit=
12-02-2009, 05:14 AM
#10
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Questions about Garrett .42/.48 on a honda
found the flanges at Vecco High Performance
http://www.vecco.com/products.php?sub_cat_id=13
look under the stainless steel section
inlet - #FT3C
outlet - #FEXWGCHYR
http://www.vecco.com/products.php?sub_cat_id=13
look under the stainless steel section
inlet - #FT3C
outlet - #FEXWGCHYR
12-02-2009, 05:56 AM
#11
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Questions about Garrett .42/.48 on a honda
also just found that it should have the 42mm 50 trim compressor wheel and 48mm 69 trim turbine wheel. i cant for the life of me find a compressor inlet flange though.
12-02-2009, 06:17 AM
#12
Re: Questions about Garrett .42/.48 on a honda
Everyone seems to be overcomplicating this...
The chrysler t3 the 4th hole just needs to be drilled to the normal spot for all other t3's. it won't connect with the chrysler 3rd hole and it will work fine.
The WG will be blocked off by a proper flange as sold on Vecco's site.
For the coolant hookup you can use flwg:
https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-49/turbo-coolant-line-kits-w-black-fittings-2014711/
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2014711
The chrysler t3 the 4th hole just needs to be drilled to the normal spot for all other t3's. it won't connect with the chrysler 3rd hole and it will work fine.
The WG will be blocked off by a proper flange as sold on Vecco's site.
For the coolant hookup you can use flwg:
https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-49/turbo-coolant-line-kits-w-black-fittings-2014711/
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2014711
12-02-2009, 06:43 AM
#13
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Questions about Garrett .42/.48 on a honda
the chrysler flange is taller with 2.6" to the center of the vertical holes and slightly narrower with 3.11" between the horizontal holes. or am i missing something?
12-02-2009, 09:28 AM
#14
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: b00sting my D16s, SoWis, USA
Posts: 7,015
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
5 Posts
Re: Questions about Garrett .42/.48 on a honda
I've seen them redrilled, but IMO it's easier to get a regular "Ford SVO" housing which bolts right on. I've done both.
It should be a regular Garrett stage 1 turbine, unless the Dodge owner upgraded it at some point (unlikely). In that case, you simply find a junked volvo, saab, ford, or merkur turbo that has the 5-bolt "SVO" .48 or .63 a/r turbine housing, or the housing itself, and bolt it on. A 4-bolt non-wastegated housing is uncommon for a stg1 turbine.
If you know anyone with a decent drill press, just get a 1/2" chunk of steel, a ~2-2.25" hole saw, and make your own 5-bolt flange. It just won't have that contoured CNC look... You can also redrill the inlet flange at the same time.
As far as power is concerned, I've seen a .42/.48ar 50trim turbo do 242whp on a stock B16, but that was with an AFC hack (unsafe timing advance).
It should be a regular Garrett stage 1 turbine, unless the Dodge owner upgraded it at some point (unlikely). In that case, you simply find a junked volvo, saab, ford, or merkur turbo that has the 5-bolt "SVO" .48 or .63 a/r turbine housing, or the housing itself, and bolt it on. A 4-bolt non-wastegated housing is uncommon for a stg1 turbine.
If you know anyone with a decent drill press, just get a 1/2" chunk of steel, a ~2-2.25" hole saw, and make your own 5-bolt flange. It just won't have that contoured CNC look... You can also redrill the inlet flange at the same time.
As far as power is concerned, I've seen a .42/.48ar 50trim turbo do 242whp on a stock B16, but that was with an AFC hack (unsafe timing advance).
12-02-2009, 01:03 PM
#15
Re: Questions about Garrett .42/.48 on a honda
I'm fairly sure that when I had the turbo I checked it against the gasket that came with the spoolin log and it was a matter of simply redrilling one hole... I've been told the same by a couple different people, I could be wrong though.
12-02-2009, 01:37 PM
#16
$cat /dev/urandom
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Thornton, colorado, usa
Posts: 3,152
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
Re: Questions about Garrett .42/.48 on a honda
the short side is similarily messed up. The standard t3 flange short side is 1.75in while this flange is 2.6in on one side and 2.5 on the other. not to mention the inlet hole is a different size as well. all told, it will require 3 new holes in the housing to fit a standard t3, and then the inlets still won't be lined up unless I take a refresher course in Trigonometry.
BMCRace is usually my go to place for strange flanges, but they don't even have this one.
I jumped on turboDodge.com and there has already been quite a bit of interest in it, so i think i will just sell it there and start over with a new standard t3/t4, as soon as i can offload this one.
the SVO exhaust housing idea is a good one, but i can't find a exhaust housing FS for a reasonable price.. I saw one on ebay as part of a package deal for $300, which would put me at $520 just for this turbo, and i still have to deal with the DP and WG situation, which i don't want to deal with. I would much rather buy the pre-made stuff to bolt up than deal with some 17 year old at the muffler shop having his first "welding day" on the job. If can sell this one off to someone who needs it, ill just buy a new t3/t4 for an extra $100 and have all standard common flanges with no mysteries.
Last edited by sanimalp; 12-02-2009 at 02:00 PM.
12-03-2009, 08:28 AM
#19
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: b00sting my D16s, SoWis, USA
Posts: 7,015
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
5 Posts
Re: Questions about Garrett .42/.48 on a honda
the SVO exhaust housing idea is a good one, but i can't find a exhaust housing FS for a reasonable price.. I saw one on ebay as part of a package deal for $300, which would put me at $520 just for this turbo
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Turbo...Q5fCarQ5fParts
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Turbo...Q5fCarQ5fParts
Those are somewhat typical deals. You just have to sift through all the couplers, oil feed kits, etc to find some decent auctions. If you are getting enough intrest on turbododge, you should probably sell it there and buy a used ebay (non-chinese) version for a little bit more. The last turbo I got from ebay was listed as a volvo t3, little shaft play, and had a Garrett factory rebuild tag on it. That snail worked awsome, and I still have it. Cost $110 to my door, and was well worth it.
12-03-2009, 10:10 AM
#22
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Questions about Garrett .42/.48 on a honda
i think this is what you are looking for
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ford-...item35a53b2531
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ford-...item35a53b2531
12-03-2009, 01:34 PM
#23
$cat /dev/urandom
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Thornton, colorado, usa
Posts: 3,152
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
Re: Questions about Garrett .42/.48 on a honda
i think this is what you are looking for
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ford-...item35a53b2531
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ford-...item35a53b2531
Thanks for that.. I will keep an eye on that auction. Depending on if the sale goes through on turbododge.com, I may pick up that auction.. Too bad the shipping is $37, otherwise i would just buy it now...
12-03-2009, 05:07 PM
#24
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Questions about Garrett .42/.48 on a honda
I have a .48 exhaust housing from a tbird turbo if your interested but you'll have to drill out three broken bolts where the DP bolts up.
12-04-2009, 08:30 AM
#25
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Questions about Garrett .42/.48 on a honda
i knew that coke can looked familiar
