PTE 5831 vs 5858
02-03-2013, 04:58 PM
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PTE 5831 vs 5858
Trying to help a can anyone tell me the differences between these 2 turbos other than what is posted online? Is it just the turbine side being more efficient?
There are a few obvious differences the 5831 is an entry level turbo while the 5858 is part of the "performance" line. Both use a machined compressor wheel that may or may not be the same. The 5831 uses the 57mm 76 trim turbine wheel, the 5858 uses the 58mm 76 trim turbine.
There are a few obvious differences the 5831 is an entry level turbo while the 5858 is part of the "performance" line. Both use a machined compressor wheel that may or may not be the same. The 5831 uses the 57mm 76 trim turbine wheel, the 5858 uses the 58mm 76 trim turbine.
02-04-2013, 05:39 PM
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Re: PTE 5831 vs 5858
Looks like it is similar to the older 5857, garrett 57 trim is closer to the 3431. Found some SRT-4 guys running it already.
02-04-2013, 05:44 PM
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Re: PTE 5831 vs 5858
Its rated for 585hp... although it uses a 57mm t31 turbine wheel, 76 trim... with a 58mm inducer compressor wheel in a t04e compressor housing. Has the option of a .48 or .63 4 bolt turbine housing.
I can't really tell about the 5858, looks like the same wheel stuffed into a t04s housing with a bigger selection or turbine housings and possibly a larger turbine wheel? Not a lot of info on the turbine wheel and from the model number I'd guess a 1mm larger wheel with their thinner bladed/hub'd turbine wheel
I see the turbine wheel being a major restriction if trying to reach the 5831s upper limits.
And I always find it annoying that precision refuses to spend the time and ,money to generate compressor maps.. a HP rating alone is meaningless.. when does it choke, surge? What is the pressure limit? Flow limit?
Just because its rates for XXX HP doesn't mean it will work on a certain applicatipn
And mfs is nothing special, just means it was machined from a solid piece of billet (which every billet wheel is) its not like other wheels are machined from multiple pieces.
Having worked in a ,machine shop with high end 5 axis mills and lathes with tailstocks and auto bar feeders, precisions "terminology" is nothing more than marketing hype. CEA and MFS are not even real terms, just something the marketing department drummed up to make people think its different and special.
All billet wheels start out as a solid raw billet and are then ,machined on a 5 axis mill for the bulk of the procedure.. some finishing and roughing work is done on a CNC lathe but not much
I can't really tell about the 5858, looks like the same wheel stuffed into a t04s housing with a bigger selection or turbine housings and possibly a larger turbine wheel? Not a lot of info on the turbine wheel and from the model number I'd guess a 1mm larger wheel with their thinner bladed/hub'd turbine wheel
I see the turbine wheel being a major restriction if trying to reach the 5831s upper limits.
And I always find it annoying that precision refuses to spend the time and ,money to generate compressor maps.. a HP rating alone is meaningless.. when does it choke, surge? What is the pressure limit? Flow limit?
Just because its rates for XXX HP doesn't mean it will work on a certain applicatipn
And mfs is nothing special, just means it was machined from a solid piece of billet (which every billet wheel is) its not like other wheels are machined from multiple pieces.
Having worked in a ,machine shop with high end 5 axis mills and lathes with tailstocks and auto bar feeders, precisions "terminology" is nothing more than marketing hype. CEA and MFS are not even real terms, just something the marketing department drummed up to make people think its different and special.
All billet wheels start out as a solid raw billet and are then ,machined on a 5 axis mill for the bulk of the procedure.. some finishing and roughing work is done on a CNC lathe but not much
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02-04-2013, 05:52 PM
#8
Re: PTE 5831 vs 5858
the 5857 was a really solid turbo which was replaced via the 5858 I believe. hmmmmm i'm in the market for a solid turbo again could use something not as laggy as my previous turbo the 6031 .63:/ If i'm gonna spend $750+ for a 5831 I may as well fork out another $150 for the 5858 eh?
05-14-2013, 02:03 PM
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Re: PTE 5831 vs 5858
OK, I was curious so I bought one......
Actually its not for me but I do have possession of it. It is going on a Piston/Rod/ITR cam B16 that has previously had a garrett 57 and a Precision 6031 on it for a comparison.
5858 Top
5831 Bottom
5858 Top
5831 Bottom
5858 10 Blade
5831 STD T31 11 Blade
5858
5831
Actually its not for me but I do have possession of it. It is going on a Piston/Rod/ITR cam B16 that has previously had a garrett 57 and a Precision 6031 on it for a comparison.
5858 Top
5831 Bottom
5858 Top
5831 Bottom
5858 10 Blade
5831 STD T31 11 Blade
5858
5831
05-14-2013, 05:45 PM
#12
Re: PTE 5831 vs 5858
The differences between the 2 are rather subtle , but can be important for those that want more capability and midrange (XX58) using the same compressor wheel. the (XX31) has a different profile completely than the (XX58). The fact that the 5858 is thinner makes me a bit nervous (always did) but the profile does make a difference in midrange power
The power difference is over the 450whp mark. I believe that is where I've seen the biggest changes from the difference in turbine wheel profile. The 5858 will do just fine over the 450whp with torque, but the 5831 as a matter of habit always does taper off once you get to the 440whp-460whp mark due to the profile changes. That wheel profile and overall diameter does make a slight difference, as the (XX58) is slightly better for the higher rotational speeds. It does look just like a Turbonetics F1-57 big shaft profile, but thinner
.
The Backing plate for the 5858 is made to hold a larger compressor cover than the 5831. the 5858 backing plate is a polish CNC piece while the 5831 is a cast piece. It really is only a few dollars less but it does make difference in overall costs of each unit.
Good luck with either one.
The power difference is over the 450whp mark. I believe that is where I've seen the biggest changes from the difference in turbine wheel profile. The 5858 will do just fine over the 450whp with torque, but the 5831 as a matter of habit always does taper off once you get to the 440whp-460whp mark due to the profile changes. That wheel profile and overall diameter does make a slight difference, as the (XX58) is slightly better for the higher rotational speeds. It does look just like a Turbonetics F1-57 big shaft profile, but thinner
.The Backing plate for the 5858 is made to hold a larger compressor cover than the 5831. the 5858 backing plate is a polish CNC piece while the 5831 is a cast piece. It really is only a few dollars less but it does make difference in overall costs of each unit.
Good luck with either one.
Last edited by TheShodan; 05-15-2013 at 05:29 AM.
05-18-2013, 12:08 PM
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Re: PTE 5831 vs 5858
22-23PSI
9:1 wiseco/eagle
Itr manifold/cams
Supertech Springs/Steel Crane retainers
ID1000/93 octane
Ram-Horn/3" Exhaust
Super Simple build put together correctly and a hell of a tune by D-Rob at IMW. This engine is daily driven and has been untouched for 3 years.
9:1 wiseco/eagle
Itr manifold/cams
Supertech Springs/Steel Crane retainers
ID1000/93 octane
Ram-Horn/3" Exhaust
Super Simple build put together correctly and a hell of a tune by D-Rob at IMW. This engine is daily driven and has been untouched for 3 years.
05-18-2013, 01:53 PM
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Re: PTE 5831 vs 5858
If I remember correctly they are the light springs its been a while since I had built the engine. The car belongs to a close friend.
02-23-2014, 08:12 AM
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Re: PTE 5831 vs 5858
For those still interested in this turbo
Same engine with garrett 57/PTE-5831/PTE-6031
Should be clear which is which
This was all done on the same engine on the same dyno, same tuner.
Garrett 57 GSR Cams Trim vs 5831 ITR Cams
6031 ITR Cams vs 5831 ITR Cams
The examples are only to show spool difference, not maximum potential
Same engine with garrett 57/PTE-5831/PTE-6031
Should be clear which is which
This was all done on the same engine on the same dyno, same tuner.
Garrett 57 GSR Cams Trim vs 5831 ITR Cams
6031 ITR Cams vs 5831 ITR Cams
The examples are only to show spool difference, not maximum potential
02-23-2014, 11:52 AM
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Re: PTE 5831 vs 5858
Both of the 475hp dyno's were at 22psi.
The boost plot shows that the 5831 wanted a bigger WG spring as it begins to bleed off early
The boost plot shows that the 5831 wanted a bigger WG spring as it begins to bleed off early
02-23-2014, 09:57 PM
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Re: PTE 5831 vs 5858
I was wondering why the 5831 graph looked a little weird
the 6031 looks really laggy compared to the rest but I thought the 5831 would spool a *little* faster given it's turbine wheel design. I'm assuming it has the .63 housing?
it looks impressive when plotted next to the 57 trim though, weird how it wants to keep making power at higher rpm levels
the 6031 looks really laggy compared to the rest but I thought the 5831 would spool a *little* faster given it's turbine wheel design. I'm assuming it has the .63 housing?
it looks impressive when plotted next to the 57 trim though, weird how it wants to keep making power at higher rpm levels
