pK1spooled

Motor - LS/Vtec, 9:1 Pistons, Rods, Stock sleeves

Started the motor for the first time the other day, ran it for awhile, bled the coolant, check timing etc, then I pulled the plugs. Cylinders 4 and 1, plugs looked almost brand new, very little color on them at all, plugs 3 and 2, looked black, which is what I accpected is normal. If i look down the spark plug holes, the pistons look to have alot of brownish gunk/buildup on them. I have my valve cover and block fitting vented to a catchcan, and there is some smoke from the filter. There is some smoke from the exhaust as well, but not what I would consider alot.

Anyone have and ideas whats going on? Ive checked the fuel injecotrs, they all fire, I have spark at all cylinders, and I will be doing a compression test tommorow.

Thanks for your help i need to figure this out asap so i dont miss my tuning appointment.

O and btw im running a neptune base map from jeff evans right now.

D@nnY

pull the valve cpver and look for milkshake or water buildup...do a compresion test and see is 2 of the cylinders are low...does the car run ok?


make sure you didnt cross the injector plugs and have number 2 injector plugged to number one

pK1spooled

ttt

pK1spooled

Just did the compression test, I got 190 across the board. What the hell could my problem be

no milkshake in the valve cover or anything. forgot to mention before the car didnt seem to run bad, it idled pretty steadily at 900-1000 rpm, my boost gauge read -.7 bar.

fullblown

Do the plugs have a black soot or powder on them? If its crusty soot then u have a oil problem thats getting into those cylinders. Your probally gonna need to do a leak down. good luck

pK1spooled

bump

platinum00

how many miles are on the motor?
are your rings still seating?


platinum.

nonvtecD

You need to street tune and seat the rings... So, the problem is brown gunk on pistons looking through your plug hole and black plugs even though it runs ok? Get it tuned and then decide what's wrong.

pK1spooled

Ran the motor some more today and did a valve adjustment. Still getting white smoke from the exhaust and a little bit from the breather. The motor doesnt sound healthy at all. Plugs are still reading the same with two that are black and two not. Vaccume still reading -.7bar

The motor is completely fresh... hone, pistons, rods... How are freshly built motors suppose to run/sound? It idles ok but I can hear missfires and its making bad sounds, sounds like a diesle almost.

I havent driven the car at all and I dont plan on it until i figure it out, with the compression test readin 190 across the board I dont know what it could be.

D@nnY

get the car tuned....the vaccum the motor pulls will change from a bad tune or bad base map

nonvtecD

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nonvtecD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You need to street tune and seat the rings... </TD></TR></TABLE>

fastrunner

you just built a new motor, time to break it in. Get a tune, drive for 1000 miles change the oil two to three time during that period, check for deposits or metal flakes in the oil, if you dont see any keep driving it after 1000+ miles enjoy the boost.

D@nnY

Thats bs..if the car is running wierd and needs to be tuned you WILL screw up the motor trying to "seat the rings" The air fuel needs to be fixed or your need ot run it on stock injectors and a stock ecu

pK1spooled

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fastrunner &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you just built a new motor, time to break it in. Get a tune, drive for 1000 miles change the oil two to three time during that period, check for deposits or metal flakes in the oil, if you dont see any keep driving it after 1000+ miles enjoy the boost.</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D@nnY &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thats bs..if the car is running wierd and needs to be tuned you WILL screw up the motor trying to "seat the rings" The air fuel needs to be fixed or your need ot run it on stock injectors and a stock ecu</TD></TR></TABLE>

Maybe im not being clear enough here. The motor does NOT sound healthy at all. The spark plugs are reading very wierd, and its smoking. This sounds to me like Im having trouble in the bottom end somewhere. I have to tow the car pretty far to evans tunning to get it tuned, and I want it to be right for that day, I dont wanna have to go all the way out there for him to tell me something is seriously screwed in the motor.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nonvtecD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You need to street tune and seat the rings...</TD></TR></TABLE>
The compression test showed 190 across the board, and Ive ran it for a long time, the rings should be seated, driving the car in this state isnt going to do em any good.

Anyone else got any ideas, or some more tests i can perform? Im trying to get my hands on a leakdown tester.

Dublocivic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D@nnY &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thats bs..if the car is running wierd and needs to be tuned you WILL screw up the motor trying to "seat the rings" The air fuel needs to be fixed or your need ot run it on stock injectors and a stock ecu</TD></TR></TABLE>

This does work ok in some cases but you cant just run it on stock injectors and stock ecu and think that it'll be ok. You need to watch your AF on a wide band and adjust the fuel pressure until it is on target. If you are running different than stock components you need to make sure that your AF is on. If you dont and it runs lean you will succumb to the black death and that sucks.

nonvtecD

We can say for sure that the motor is smoking from the crankcase (out the breather)... As far as the plugs go that is definitely fuel related. If the valve and ignition timing is correct and you have good compression (which you do) you need to street tune the thing or at least get a wideband on it at idle to see what it is doing... You know nothing at this point. Idling a motor does not seat the rings and I am surprised you see such good compression. Honestly the only thing that could make a motor run rough is timing or fuel related, so eliminate what you know is good. I feel like the smoke will go away with a good tune and the rings seat...

D@nnY

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dublocivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This does work ok in some cases but you cant just run it on stock injectors and stock ecu and think that it'll be ok. You need to watch your AF on a wide band and adjust the fuel pressure until it is on target. If you are running different than stock components you need to make sure that your AF is on. If you dont and it runs lean you will succumb to the black death and that sucks.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Ive seen about 5 motors including my own 9-1 compression turbo setups with ported heads and fully built motors all run rich on the stock p72 program and stock injectors....... If the car is running rich enough to wash the rings the car will be smoking and it will run badly.... (like it is now)

If the car is lean it will start bucking and run like **** also.....the motor is not going to be damaged by running lean at part throttle anyways. so right now stock injectors are worth a try.....

he just said he has no other way of tuning the car ahead of time so this is his only option... again it will pull more vacuum once the air fuel is corrected good luck man

also you can have it run off an o2 sensor if you go stock injectors and itll run great

pK1spooled

Im not worried about the AF ratio right now because im not driving the car anywhere at all, it will be towed tot he tuner. Im most worried about the excessive blowby, the grimey/oily looking pistons, and the bad sound the motor has. I realize the missfires are probably all in the tune, and maybe even the plugs. But i knwo for sure that the motor is not suppose to sound like it does. Basically im not so sure my engine builder did a good job, but i have no way of confirming this.

Someone mentioned to me that my compression numbers may be so good because of all the oil in the cylinders, and the compression test may not tell the whole story. Also i was told to check for excessive pressure coming from the oil cap and the block breather and oil pain fitting. I feel some pressure, but i dont know what is excessive.

Another thing, I am 99% possitive my timing belt is setup right, but with distributor at full advance, I only read 12deg BTDC with my light. That seems odd to me too.

Please if there is anymore info i can provide so someone could be able to help me let me know, I really wanna find out whats up. I know its only running a basemap so its not gonna run perfect, but i pretty damn sure its not suppose to be like this.

D@nnY

if your cam timing is correct and you only get 12 degrees at full advance your head is milled to **** or the block is extremely milled

it makes the timing belt effectively longer and retards your cam timing and ignition timing since it runs off the intake cam...if the cams are off timing by 1 tooth igniton will be off by 10 degrees

im not sure on this one but its possible he used the wrong water pump and timing belt combo.... like say a gsr belt and an ls pump

you need to match the belt to the pump...but im not sure if the marks would even line up since I dont do to many ls vtecs ... someone else chime in on that theory

fullblown

Ive done quite a few LS vtec and I am almost posititve(since ive never used the wrong combo) that if u were to use the wrong belt and and pump combo, U would have a hard time lining everything up. If cylinder 2 and 3 are the ones in trouble and 1 and 4 is fine, I think u have a mechanical issue, rather then a tune. I would pull the exhuast manifold off and inspect the ports on 2, and 3. That was how i found out that the 4th cyl on my motor was screwd. I saw a oily build up and followed up with a leak down, and bam... found out my rings were bad. hope that helps

D@nnY

you figure it out?

pK1spooled

I have been driving the car. I put a little over 250 miles on it with a basemap. It is running good. I was not aware that you had to actually drive the car to seat the rings as this is my first experience with a brand new motor. No noises, smooth idle and drives well. After driving it i checked the timing again and I was able to set it at 16 degrees. I changed the oil twice and it looked perfect. I found out that the spark plugs looked different because of the map that is on the car. The smoke from the exhaust has stopped.

The only thing that is worrying me now is that after 250 miles there is still a little smoke coming out of my filter on my catch can for the block/valve cover ventilation. Also there is no oil in the catchcan. Is it possible that this will still go away or is this normal at all?


Modified by pK1spooled at 1:24 AM 12/7/2005

Marlon88

Your motor is fine !! When I rebuilt mine it ran like that for the first 100 miles , I had the same problems with the collor of the spark plugs , now everything is fine .

Those are the symptoms of the rings seating . Even the little blowby from the breather , that`s normal . The important thing that it had stoped smoking from the breather .

GoodLuck , hope you make some good numbers

pK1spooled

It hasn't stopped smoking from the breather...

D@nnY

the smoke from the breather is blow by which may or may not go away....youll have to put some more miles on the motor and do a leakdown test....