The sweed

Just like the topic says.. I would like to see how the acl race rod bearings for a b16 looks..
The regular acl series got some holes in them I do not like but the regular b18c acl rod bearings donīt have them..
So i am not sure the b18 and b16 race bearings looks the same so if anyone can show me a picture of a race acl rod bearing for a b16 would be great..
A picture of a acl race main bearing would not hurt ether..

The sweed

bump

Hybrid96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by The sweed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just like the topic says.. I would like to see how the acl race rod bearings for a b16 looks..
The regular acl series got some holes in them I do not like but the regular b18c acl rod bearings donīt have them..
So i am not sure the b18 and b16 race bearings looks the same so if anyone can show me a picture of a race acl rod bearing for a b16 would be great..
A picture of a acl race main bearing would not hurt ether..</TD></TR></TABLE>

Let me see if I can explain this to you. ACL is a company that makes "Standard" bearings. Yes, you can get them in three sizes, but they are still use a "standard" method of production. The B16 rod bearings happen to be the same as the ones used in the D16, B18A, B20, and many other applications (I don't have the whole list memorized). Anyways, the "hole" in the bearing is because SOME of the engines I listed use this hole in the rod to squirt oil at the cylinder walls. Sort of like an oil squirter works on a B series Vtec engine. Not all engines have/use this hole in the rod, BUT because ACL manufactures bearings for a broad spectrum of applications, they put the holes in them all. If you need em, great, if not, they won't hurt a damn thing. You see what I am saying? If you bought the bearings from Honda, they would not have the holes because they are manufactured for specific applications. ACL covers a wide range of applications with one set of bearings to keep costs down. It should make sense. The holes will not hurt anything, believe me. I have assembled over 15 different engines by now and many of them used ACL bearings with 0 problems.

The sweed

I know thats why they have the holes but I do not agree that they would not hurt anything.. But that is not the topic here... I want to se how the race version of the rod bearing looks like and I just wanted to point out that it is not sure that the b18c and b16 looks the same. Just so no one will post a picture of a b18c bearing saying that this is what it looks like and thinking it is the same bearing for every b-series.. People has mistaken that before.. That does not meen that I donīt want to see a picture of a b18c race bearing..

Thanks for taking time though...

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Maybe Im missing something here but without the holes, how do you expect any oil to get on the surface of the bearing?

ArinX

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Maybe Im missing something here but without the holes, how do you expect any oil to get on the surface of the bearing?</TD></TR></TABLE>


not that hole,

heres a shitty pic of the hole hes talking about

Hybrid96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by The sweed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know thats why they have the holes but I do not agree that they would not hurt anything.. But that is not the topic here... I want to se how the race version of the rod bearing looks like and I just wanted to point out that it is not sure that the b18c and b16 looks the same. Just so no one will post a picture of a b18c bearing saying that this is what it looks like and thinking it is the same bearing for every b-series.. People has mistaken that before.. That does not meen that I donīt want to see a picture of a b18c race bearing..

Thanks for taking time though...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Continue to search then. The race bearings have the holes, I have used those also for a few builds. You can continue to think I have no clue of what I am talking about, thats fine. Eventually you will come to a point where you will see what I am saying...

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

the only diff. between the standard and race acls are that the race version have a coating on them... the coating wears off quickly and i wouldnt recommend it for a street car, just stick to the regular acl's

Suprdave

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wantboost &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> the coating wears off quickly and i wouldnt recommend it for a street car, just stick to the regular acl's</TD></TR></TABLE>

No it doesnt...go take apart a good B18C1\5 Motor with alot of miles and tell me if the bearings still have a coating on them...

The sweed

According to ACL:s website (a pdf file of the 650 pages paper catalog) the race bearings have som changes in the surfice as mentiond and the bearing is also harder and can there for take more load like higher rpm.. But I also know that a harder bearing can cause damage to the crank if something goes wrong. The hole does make the bearing weaker and I know people have built race cars with a 1000 hp with the regular acl with 0 isue but if I in some way can make my bearing almost 50% stronger by choosing the right bearing.... Then I will..

Still I just want to se a pictore of the race bearings and make up my own mind on how I am going to do.

Hybrid96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by The sweed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">According to ACL:s website (a pdf file of the 650 pages paper catalog) the race bearings have som changes in the surfice as mentiond and the bearing is also harder and can there for take more load like higher rpm.. But I also know that a harder bearing can cause damage to the crank if something goes wrong. The hole does make the bearing weaker and I know people have built race cars with a 1000 hp with the regular acl with 0 isue but if I in some way can make my bearing almost 50% stronger by choosing the right bearing.... Then I will..

Still I just want to se a pictore of the race bearings and make up my own mind on how I am going to do. </TD></TR></TABLE>

This kind of philosophy just never made sense to me.

"I know that what I have is already overengineered and I will never exceed its limits in any given real world situation... but how can I possibly make it even better?"

That hole will NOT weaken the bearing by 50%. I mean, whats the hole going to do? Make the bearing more likely to bend at that point? Make it easier to "flatten" out? Both of these problems should not be issues for you and if they are, you have much worse things to worry about then a hole in the surface of your rod bearing. The bearing cannot bend at all, where is it going to go? Its got the rod cap on one end and the crank journal on the other. If either of these pieces give then you shouldn't be worrying about what your bearings are doing! Wouldn't you agree? Anyways, carry on with your search.

The sweed

I know a guy that have his own bussiness and is a proffesional in the industri in tribology he did a simulation on a friend of mines engine bearings (www.autoinvent.se). He has a nissan s14 sr20det and he dynoed 880hp and just put down mid 9s on the strip. He had clivett 77 bearings that is konsidering hard and the oil guy predicted in the simulations that the rod bearing is taking to much load per squer inch because of the holes. he was right and the nissa guy actually put modified honda bearings in it without holes and have not had an issue sense. Now the oil guy predicts the same thing for me. And I trust him and his reputation. It is not just the area of the hole. The hole does much more than that.. If it just was the area of the holes that matterd it wouldent be a problem but thats not the case.. The hole does actualy adding almost 50% of more load on the upper bearing half. I do not have time to translate the facts here and explain how that is.. It was not what I want by this topic ether. If you want to discuss that open up your own thread or email the guy at auto invent.

The bearings have lots of plases to deform and were you dont want it is were you want to have correct oil clearens.

Finland

I agree with the Swedish guy, I think people are forgetting that the load actually sits on a film of oil between the crank journal and the bearing, not the bearing surface itself. What that hole does is allow the oil to escape therefore weakening the film of oil that would be there if the hole wasn't present. Obviously all journal bearings leak oil, but normally the oil leaks away from the sides of the bearing only.

earl

The hole in the bearing does nothing but hold a little extra oil in the bearing. The oil will not compress and could actually add strength/cushion plus it works as a reservoir for a little more oil, if necessary.

tony1

Why not just run OEM honda bearings?

ArinX

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why not just run OEM honda bearings?</TD></TR></TABLE>

i was thinking the same thing. Just get them coated if you want that coating.

*Boostwerks*

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why not just run OEM honda bearings?</TD></TR></TABLE>



OEM, all the way.

The sweed

Those are to soft for high rpm..

The sweed

I donīt know if I explained my self right befor.. sorry.. but what people donīt know mostly is that the hole makes the surfice of the bearing that can hold the force of the oil film ALOT less then just the actual area of the hole. That makes the bearing see WHAY more load per squere inch... And high RPM is whats brings the most load to the rod bearings... Main bearings is not an isue.. those are not the problem.

Sorry for the spelling..

Still hoping to see an picture om ACL race bearings...

Anyone... please!!

Hybrid96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boondock Saint &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I agree with the Swedish guy, I think people are forgetting that the load actually sits on a film of oil between the crank journal and the bearing, not the bearing surface itself. What that hole does is allow the oil to escape therefore weakening the film of oil that would be there if the hole wasn't present. Obviously all journal bearings leak oil, but normally the oil leaks away from the sides of the bearing only.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Except for the fact that in his case, the hole is essentially "plugged" and therefore the oil cannot go anywhere. How would this cause a problem? Answer: It doesn't

Hybrid96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by The sweed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I donīt know if I explained my self right befor.. sorry.. but what people donīt know mostly is that the hole makes the surfice of the bearing that can hold the force of the oil film ALOT less then just the actual area of the hole. That makes the bearing see WHAY more load per squere inch... And high RPM is whats brings the most load to the rod bearings... Main bearings is not an isue.. those are not the problem.

Sorry for the spelling..

Still hoping to see an picture om ACL race bearings...

Anyone... please!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've tried to find you a picture and couldn't find one. I used the bearings before though and know what they look like. The don't look nearly as "pretty", thats for sure. They even enclose a piece of paper telling you they are going to look like *** in the box...

I have a very reputable and trusted source also who tells me that the hole isn't going to harm anything. Even earl who is a very well respected engine builder around here seems to agree...

tony1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by The sweed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Those are to soft for high rpm..</TD></TR></TABLE>

What kind of stroke and rpm are we talking? I know for a fact that they're fine to 11000rpm with an 87mm stroke...

xerox445

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What kind of stroke and rpm are we talking? I know for a fact that they're fine to 11000rpm with an 87mm stroke...</TD></TR></TABLE>



Honda OEM, you cant achive the clearances without them, with the generic sized acl sets.

Acls are good if your not plastigauging or using a rod bolt strech gauge, just throwing them in and torquing them down. Because your not going to be able to tell anyway, and your going to wonder later down the road why your rotating assembly is all fugged up

civicross

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xerox445 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Honda OEM, you cant achive the clearances without them, with the generic sized acl sets.

Acls are good if your not plastigauging or using a rod bolt strech gauge, just throwing them in and torquing them down. Because your not going to be able to tell anyway, and your going to wonder later down the road why your rotating assembly is all fugged up </TD></TR></TABLE>

Ever heard of a micrometer?

Suprdave

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by The sweed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Those are to soft for high rpm..</TD></TR></TABLE>

Tune your junk so its not detonating.