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Overall turbo engine enjoyment factor discussion.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...c2e99d667e.jpg All to often we tend to think that the highest whp we can make will be the end all but I see it time and time again after someone builds a car to make high numbers that it ends up for sale a few months down the road because it never gets driven. I would like to discuss about what really makes you enjoy the car and why. Please list your favorite turbo setups and why you loved them. for me there was a few that I really loved. The one that comes to mind was my ls turbo eg that made about 340whp and 300 tq, dyno'd at 314/280 before changing turbo's, retuning on higher boost. That car was a blast to drive, it was well balanced, had a really fat powerband and tons of mid range and I put a lot of miles and races on it. Best time with it was 11.5 at 123mph, I got 34mpg freeway and about 28 in town with it. It was a cast iron manifold, eBay 50trim, 3" bumper exit exhaust and pieced together charge pipes. I think that that power level is just about perfect for a light weight hatch with good tires and boost by gear. I know it wasn't anything worth bragging about but I had a blast with that car. This was also one of the cheapest builds I have done. If I would have done it over again I would have just done a set of rods and pistons in it and made sure all clearances were perfect. It was also in my younger years (early 20s) so maybe it just brings back memories of when I was careless and didn't always have the burden of consequences on my mind. https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...3a3758e167.jpg |
Re: Overall turbo engine enjoyment factor discussion.
My favorite setup was my first setup (probably my best memories). 93 civic si HB with Greddy turbo kit. That kit used something like a 15g from what I remember. It was an awesome every day driver and I took that setup down the drag strip hundreds of times. My personal best time was 13.05 @105mph and the motor was 100% stock internals. It was just a blast to drive and got 35 mph. This was back in the 90’s and the options like hondata was just about to become available but not really heard of yet, we had to do everything old school when it came to tuning. My setup still used stock d16z6 injectors with a Vortech FMU that raised my fuel pressure to 100psi under boost. I added a walbro 255 pump and a msd 6al box with a blaster coil and we had to manually pull or add timing with the distributor or use a msd timing retard which never worked. I used stock timing up until 7 psi which is where labor knock would start, then racefuel would get me up to 10psi for race days. I remember everything I did because of hard I had to work to get things done (unlike today)...... nice topic and should get some good stories |
Re: Overall turbo engine enjoyment factor discussion.
That's crazy it ran a 13.0 with stock injectors on a fmu lol. Those greddy kits are bad ass the d series are a 15g which works awesome on single cams. I tuned one on a built z6 on 15lbs that would rip tires off in 3rd on the freeway. The b series kits use a 18g which is a really sweet setup for ls turbo's. I had one customer with a full weight dc Teg, two 15" subs in the trunk, 16x9 wheels, stock ls just arp head studs with a greddy kit I put on 16lbs and it would straight move and the lag wasn't bad at all. ive been toying around with the idea of building a d series for my 2000 Honda Insight I picked up since I thought I could handle the 62hp and just enjoy the fuel economy but I'm not sure if I will be able to long term. I have a a6 bottom end, y8 head, y8 trans and evo 8 turbo for it already. I might have the cam reground to make it more like a z1/ y5 cam and basically run one intake valve until vtec, I think I could retain killer milage this way and still have something with some balls and cools sounds. I really miss the younger years of building cars. It seemed so much easier to just enjoy it back then, and it was so exciting how much new information I could learn and absorb. |
Re: Overall turbo engine enjoyment factor discussion.
I love all the turbo rides I've owned, my favorite is arguably my old FD RX7.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...d3b38b3fb6.jpg Finicky engine, the 13B. Twin turbo setup, too many other mods to list lol. Car would shit and get with it. Sold it after my daughter was born when the now ex-wife, wrecked her car. |
Re: Overall turbo engine enjoyment factor discussion.
OP - your first build is kind of what I'm going for - I think about 350 whp max - I just want it to feel fast and remain streetable. I'm past the 'racecar' phase too, and have to have full interior and AC. I'm overbuilding the shit out of this single cam, but it's been a fun journey - the only other turbo Honda I had was a stock LS that I pieced together a turbo kit for. It was great fun while it lasted, but it didn't last. I'm hoping for some longevity with this current build, while still being fun. Those wheels you've got on the hatch in the first post look good on the car.
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Re: Overall turbo engine enjoyment factor discussion.
Originally Posted by K7-1Ktrevor
(Post 51819348)
That's crazy it ran a 13.0 with stock injectors on a fmu lol. Those greddy kits are bad ass the d series are a 15g which works awesome on single cams. I tuned one on a built z6 on 15lbs that would rip tires off in 3rd on the freeway. The b series kits use a 18g which is a really sweet setup for ls turbo's. I had one customer with a full weight dc Teg, two 15" subs in the trunk, 16x9 wheels, stock ls just arp head studs with a greddy kit I put on 16lbs and it would straight move and the lag wasn't bad at all. ive been toying around with the idea of building a d series for my 2000 Honda Insight I picked up since I thought I could handle the 62hp and just enjoy the fuel economy but I'm not sure if I will be able to long term. I have a a6 bottom end, y8 head, y8 trans and evo 8 turbo for it already. I might have the cam reground to make it more like a z1/ y5 cam and basically run one intake valve until vtec, I think I could retain killer milage this way and still have something with some balls and cools sounds. I really miss the younger years of building cars. It seemed so much easier to just enjoy it back then, and it was so exciting how much new information I could learn and absorb. |
Re: Overall turbo engine enjoyment factor discussion.
Originally Posted by K7-1Ktrevor
(Post 51819348)
I really miss the younger years of building cars. It seemed so much easier to just enjoy it back then, and it was so exciting how much new information I could learn and absorb.
As far as setups go I have had quite a few in my Accord. Most people sell/swap out cars. I swap out engines/setups lol. A total of 7 or 8 at this point, I've lost count. My favorite has to be my current turbo F20B setup that I've been running for 3 years now. It's a stock bottom end so it's nice and quiet. No piston slap, no noises. Runs like stock. I daily it at 350hp and honestly it's perfect for the car. Surprises a lot of people. The engine is so smooth. I've had built engines, torquey single cams, even an H23 blue top and none of them have been as smooth as the F20B. The power comes in so nicely and evenly and it just keeps building as the RPMs increase. I have a high boost setting as detailed in my sig but honestly it's too much for the street so I just run it on spring pressure. I've been considering doing a 85x97 forged stroker setup to make it a 2.2L but it's like, what's the point? The setup works great is it is. No drama, just turn the key and send it. That's the biggest enjoyment factor I think. Just having something that works well and as you intend it to. It's never fun when something is constantly breaking or requiring tons of money spent on it just to maintain it. |
Re: Overall turbo engine enjoyment factor discussion.
Those f20b's are very smooth engines indeed. They enjoy the revs very well and feel at home in rpms, some engines feel so strained at revs but definitely not a f20b. I'm liking everyone's feedback in here so far. I plan to run my awd crx around that 350-375 range for longevity after some bragging rights dyno runs to see what it's capable of. |
Re: Overall turbo engine enjoyment factor discussion.
Originally Posted by turboLScrx
(Post 51819392)
‘not sure if it was dumb luck or skill. lol. I can drive the wheel off a car at the track. I used every little trick I could find back then.
Originally Posted by DaX
(Post 51819391)
OP - your first build is kind of what I'm going for - I think about 350 whp max - I just want it to feel fast and remain streetable. I'm past the 'racecar' phase too, and have to have full interior and AC. I'm overbuilding the shit out of this single cam, but it's been a fun journey - the only other turbo Honda I had was a stock LS that I pieced together a turbo kit for. It was great fun while it lasted, but it didn't last. I'm hoping for some longevity with this current build, while still being fun. Those wheels you've got on the hatch in the first post look good on the car.
350 is a solid number, I think allot of people under estimate that power level and want to set a goal of 600+whp for their first turbo build. I've gotten to tune a ton of cars over the years and the ones that always feel fastest are the ones that are right at the edge of breaking traction while still maintaing it. I tuned a car a few months back that made 630 and it felt like a turd on the street, it would lag then rip tires and go no where. |
Re: Overall turbo engine enjoyment factor discussion.
Originally Posted by K7-1Ktrevor
(Post 51819424)
350 is a solid number, I think allot of people under estimate that power level and want to set a goal of 600+whp for their first turbo build. I've gotten to tune a ton of cars over the years and the ones that always feel fastest are the ones that are right at the edge of breaking traction while still maintaing it.
Originally Posted by K7-1Ktrevor
(Post 51819424)
I tuned a car a few months back that made 630 and it felt like a turd on the street, it would lag then rip tires and go no where.
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Re: Overall turbo engine enjoyment factor discussion.
My favorite was my 200whp d16y8 del sol. Was my first build I had back from 2005-2010. Had a tiny t25 turbo so it made almost instantaneous power and had good mid range torque for a Honda. Was a blast for a street car. It also didn't have too much top end where it would just blow the tires off all the time, and it hooked decent in 2nd gear. It surprised just about everyone who rode in it.
The 400whp I have now in the crx is fun, but it is too much for the street. It scares the crap out of me almost every time, and in lower gears it spins all day. It should be more fun this year when I get boost by gear dialed in properly, but so far I've just been running a MBC. I keep it turned down most of the time to probably 300-350whp range. But the power doesn't come on til later in the RPM and with more throttle, so it's not usable unless you have a good stretch of road and once it hits you're at 100mph in no time. There's just not much you can do with it around town. |
Re: Overall turbo engine enjoyment factor discussion.
Originally Posted by 2x0
(Post 51819611)
My favorite was my 200whp d16y8 del sol. Was my first build I had back from 2005-2010. Had a tiny t25 turbo so it made almost instantaneous power and had good mid range torque for a Honda. Was a blast for a street car. It also didn't have too much top end where it would just blow the tires off all the time, and it hooked decent in 2nd gear. It surprised just about everyone who rode in it.
The 400whp I have now in the crx is fun, but it is too much for the street. It scares the crap out of me almost every time, and in lower gears it spins all day. It should be more fun this year when I get boost by gear dialed in properly, but so far I've just been running a MBC. I keep it turned down most of the time to probably 300-350whp range. But the power doesn't come on til later in the RPM and with more throttle, so it's not usable unless you have a good stretch of road and once it hits you're at 100mph in no time. There's just not much you can do with it around town. |
Re: Overall turbo engine enjoyment factor discussion.
300whp/300trq daily driven turbo LS setup GT25R. Was fun to drive, fun to tinker, never left me stranded. And it was fast enough to play with some muscle.
Now its 630whp/450trq or something and the car sits most of the time. There's only so many times you can do 60-140 before it gets boring and old fixing shit or trying to keep up with people that have unlimited budgets. It is much more reasonable on wastegate (420whp/300trq) but still the way the power comes up you have to prepare for it lol Think I may sell off the turbo and get something smaller but Im going to tinker with N/A for now while I build the car around a 'race only' mindset. |
Re: Overall turbo engine enjoyment factor discussion.
Race only is all I personally care about, I lost all interest long ago with wanting to daily drive a Honda with power. You get crap traction when you make a decent amount of power, you always have to worry about people wanting to steal your car, and you lose comfort.
Driving stock quite cars is so much nicer and when I want to go fast I have my car specifically for that purpose. |
Re: Overall turbo engine enjoyment factor discussion.
My fav. FWD car I've personally owned would be my old 89HP, D series when it made 330whp on a stock motor using our old 56mm turbo (car went 12.30 at 117mph if I remember correctly). I've built/owned multiple D series cars and that was the most fun power wise (power + chassis setup, it was just a go cart). I then got HP happy, and turned it into a 600whp (10.9 @136mph)car and honestly hated the combination it took (at the time) to get it there. Meanwhile I really felt like I got away from what I thoroughly enjoyed about the car (I somehow did this to myself twice). For me, 250-500whp is where it's at in a street setup with a "suspension package" to match it.
While owning that car, near the end of the ownership, I bought an S2000 in $hit shape. Rebuilt it, the first turbo setup on the worn stock motor made 340whp at 8psi. This power curve, despite the peak number, was IT for me. I owned the S2k and the D at 600 at the same time at this point. Driving enjoyment was 100% in the S2ks favor. Zero to maybe 80mph, the S2k was faster (when it would hook up). The D series had all the top end (and no weight) and was a blast to drive on a stretch, but was gutless down low w/ the 62mm, and worthless on a radial. I'm now passively redoing my S2k (which made mid 6s) to shift the power back down and will let it sit in the low 5s and let it be. |
Re: Overall turbo engine enjoyment factor discussion.
Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC
(Post 51819904)
Race only is all I personally care about, I lost all interest long ago with wanting to daily drive a Honda with power. You get crap traction when you make a decent amount of power, you always have to worry about people wanting to steal your car, and you lose comfort.
Driving stock quite cars is so much nicer and when I want to go fast I have my car specifically for that purpose. |
Re: Overall turbo engine enjoyment factor discussion.
dope thread!! I'd say my favorite setup was my old 93 Integra RS. B16 longblock w/short geared cable b16 trans with stock rods and nippon CTR pistons with stock HG and arp headstuds. This was back in 2009-2010 when E85 wasn't big yet with the honda crowd and I tried it out. Car made 400whp and 280trq on 15psi on a precision 6031 with GoAutoworks Ramhorn. Not the fastest car but definitely held its own on the street and was fun to drive and the motor never skipped a beat for a stock high compression motor. After coming from a cast ebay manfiold and Ebay special turbo setup on a rod/piston b16 making barely 280ish I have always noticed stock motorish cars just tend to run smoother and better in some cases.
As others have stated throughout the years after tinkering with different setups and power levels "LESS IS MORE" is sooooooo very true. I have had several 450+hp and now my current integra is at 500hp. Higher power turbo cars are fun but in a sense I don't find the power useful for 90% of the driving situations my car ends up in though. I thought I would be seeing more track time etc but obviously life responsibilities took a front seat to fun haha. I think a 400-450hp street setup with a decently matched turbo 30R series of turbos and a 1.8L minimum displacement makes for a good responsive and fun street car without too much wheelspin etc with proper LSD,tires,BBG,suspension. At this point I do feel like I sort of want to build a simple bolt on/cammed k24 setup 275whp for a street setup or a stock block ITR motor with a rotrex supercharger in the 350whp range would be fun I think. |
Re: Overall turbo engine enjoyment factor discussion.
Can this be added to.. Trying to figure out my Ultimate goal. Kicking ideas around of 500+ possibly even a bit more than 600 with BBG for my 99 EM1. Won't be my old 1900lb crx on 7lbs,but really want fun and reliable.
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