b16a4

I will be boosting a b16a.
Power level, whereever 550CC injectors will take me.


What do you think about stock rods on CP FORGED PISTONS?

quicksilver1689

just get some damn eagles and call it a day

dbiker207

i dont believe that will work with off the shelf pistons. stock pistons are a floating wrist pin type, cp's are floating rod type. they can probally make you a set of custom pistons though.

b16a4

cant you just press them in?

0HAMOTORSPORTS

Yes, you can have them pressed into the rods, but why bother. 550's will easily push you around 300-350 ish. Stock rods aren't up to this task

b16a4

how much will stock rods take me?

ahobbs

they will take you as far your tuner can tune. Sounds like you want aftermarket pistons and rods.....eagle and CP works well.

stock internals work well but wont last for life, like anything everything fails.

550's are good for 320ish. I would go 750's

b16a4

i would proberly be happy with 300ish whp

i am at 151whp.

Joseph Davis

I wouldn't bother going half-forged. Replace both pistons and rods, or neither.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HAMOTORSPORTSUSA &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes, you can have them pressed into the rods, but why bother. 550's will easily push you around 300-350 ish. Stock rods aren't up to this task</TD></TR></TABLE>

I disagree. I've got a couple stock rod 300+ cars floating around, one of which is a B16.

Eklsv-t

iTrader: (1)

i have ls stock rods on wiseco pistons on ls vtec turbo, it was pushed to 300hp, ran hard at the track and hold up fine, reving to 8k, daily driven

Eklsv-t

iTrader: (1)

i think my ls rods are machined or shot peen cause no way stock ls rods will fit a forged piston

ahobbs

well 550's are fine, i personally wouldn't waste my time buying after market if your shooting for 300

blackeg

im having the same dilemma right now, trying to make an ls very solid for 300whp daily driven.


honestly though, you are going to get the itch for more boost. might as well be prepared for it with cp's and eagles. my turbo car now is running cps and eagles, handled low 400whp and 8700 rpms just fine last year. this year ill be closer to 500whp and 9000 rpms.

CX-T

Buy forged rods, if you want a solid setup. Stock rods are good, but for how much power and how much time...

4potnick

I'd try 250-300whp on a stock block b16? Why not. If I opened it for any reason it would deff get rods and pistons, not just pistons.

NJIN BUILDR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eklsv-t &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i think my ls rods are machined or shot peen cause no way stock ls rods will fit a forged piston</TD></TR></TABLE>

The stock b16 rods are fine for what your doing.Forged piston will fit fine.I have a dd with ls rods and forged pistons.Right now I'm the 300 hp range,runs high 12's with DR's and is my commuter car (40 mpg) with self tuned Hondata w/750s.I have built several ls stock rod engines with forged pistons with out any issues.

b16a4

i did the stock b16a boost

cracked ring lands in 2 weeks.

i rather forge out this time

NJIN BUILDR

I'm using stock rods and forged pistons (not stock cast pistons).

b20turbocivic

i shot peen my ls rod to wiesco piston pushing out 310 on a stock sleeve b20 vtec setup

tekturbo

That is too little power to be think of going with forged internals.

Joseph Davis

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b16a4 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i did the stock b16a boost

cracked ring lands in 2 weeks.

i rather forge out this time</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sounds like the engine had been previously abused, or the ignition timing was off.

I've seen a few problems with high mileage, or reused/reringed stock pistons. Everything is great until you add boost or a shot of nitrous and the ring lands fold. Makes sense, if you think about it, some B16 pistons are almost 20 years old and have spent the majority of their time being hammered down on by excited twenty-teen riceboys. Nothing lasts forever, reread HybridcivicLS-T's first post to thread. Read it a couple times.


Modified by Joseph Davis at 11:02 AM 4/1/2008

atec

Actually the stock rods are forged, to cast steel is more difficult and expensive than forge it becouse when you cast a metal you will have to liquify it and fill up moldings of whatever you are making, to liquify steel you need to use so much heat so that the actual moldings it self can melt.
But to forge it only needs to heat it slightly and then compress the metal under some ton of pressure.

The piston is the one who is cast, alloy do not need so much heat to be liquid and it is far more cheap to cast it than forging it.

What I would be concerned of is the stock rodbolt stretching, if you spin a bearing you most likely would get a rod out of your block, and or iven break a crank in worst case scenario.

eagles are what? 250usd? it would be plain stubid to build a block with stockrods in a highpower application. N/A or Turbo.
The most rodstretch would occure when scavenging...
The rod itself are pretty strong under downward loads.
And in a Bserie engine you also have a pretty neat rodangle if you compare it to the D-serie engine.

Joseph Davis

Casting is cheaper for very high production runs, for example the majority of the most produced engine in the world is cast crank/etc - the SBC. There were, what, 60-62 million SB1 350s ever made? Forging is cheaper for small production runs.

Also, Hondas don't have rod bolt problems, this has been known for almost a decade now but the myth persists. Time and again (which is admittedly rare) the failure is breakage across the beam, where the rod is weak, and being a mass produced lightweight carbon drop forging doesn't outweigh the rod's design flaw which is NOT the excellent OEM rod bolts. I've yet to see any big end damage that didn't result from oil pump/oilling problems or failure to properly assemble the bottom end. Neither have any of the engine builders I've talked to about it.

I've spun a number of engines to high rpms, as high as 9500 rpms on a stock ITR w/ cams (GSRswapandslow) to 9700 on Eagles with the early 8mm non-ARP2000 rod bolts that have such a shoddy rep (my roomate), and time and again the source of failure is in the valvetrain. Not rod bolts.

atec

I agree with you on the last part, the main and only mechanical reason we have seen engines going under are from valvetrain faliure, valve dropping.
I`ve broken a rod on a b16a1 engine one time 6 years ago, totally stock.
But I still think the biggest load applied to the bolts are when engine scavenging and things can fail when you have a lot of miles on the engine.
We have also reved b serie engines well past 9000 rpms.

I think we both can agree that to change the rods to aftermarked ones with the ARP2000 rodbolts are a good idea.

but I have to hold on to the Honda Forged Rods, they are still not Cast.
Only the (Aluminum) Pistons are cast.


Modified by atec at 8:45 AM 4/1/2008


Modified by atec at 8:52 AM 4/1/2008

Unsivil_audio

Personally, i would push the b16 way past 300whp stock block before even considered forged components. I have been trying to explain to my friend, people don't understand, that its honda's excellent quality control and engine assembly that make them so reliable; even in stock block form.

I also think its a waste of time if your going into the motor that far, to only change pistons and not replace the rods. Its just plain dumb.