Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?
10-03-2018, 11:21 AM
#51
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?
Ah ... Roll Racing/ Texas Mile / Highway mayhem is a completely different story. You're not going to get much more torque further down low anyway, as it would be irrelevant. So, AZ_CIVIC has that correct. Your setup would be setup more like a drag racer, but your gearing would be slightly longer in your transmission to stay on the highway. It's brave for a B16, but it could still work.
Man, that was so confusing. It's amazing what a little terminology cleanup can do for helping up. Wow.
Man, that was so confusing. It's amazing what a little terminology cleanup can do for helping up. Wow.
10-03-2018, 01:20 PM
#52
10-03-2018, 01:21 PM
#53
Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?
You still need a reasonable torque-to-weight ratio to help with acceleration. Torque starts you into the rpm band, high rpms and top end power is what carries you through. I mean to say that a B16 could be able to do it, but there's still no advantage in having the B16 vs. something with more displacement.
10-03-2018, 02:02 PM
#54
Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?
You still need a reasonable torque-to-weight ratio to help with acceleration. Torque starts you into the rpm band, high rpms and top end power is what carries you through. I mean to say that a B16 could be able to do it, but there's still no advantage in having the B16 vs. something with more displacement.
10-03-2018, 02:31 PM
#55
Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?
You have to right combination of displacement and turbo-size (See Lightningteg's LSVTEC 600whp build), and you'll see a perfect example of how to make a highway runner car.*Hint* - His turbocharger is technically smaller than what you have, and he's still wreaking havoc on Vettes, Mustangs w/ Whipples., etc. Google him up.
10-03-2018, 08:42 PM
#56
Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?
No. The traction issue isn't from displacement in this regard, unless using a REALLY small turbocharger (smaller than GTX2860RS). You'd have a better torque-to-weight ratio from a B18 combination of some sort, to keep reasonable rpms and a better powerband for highway "Texas Mile" runs like that. Otherwise, you'd see Evolution Xs with 1.6 litres instead of 2.0-2.3 litres. You have to right combination of displacement and turbo-size (See Lightningteg's LSVTEC 600whp build), and you'll see a perfect example of how to make a highway runner car.
*Hint* - His turbocharger is technically smaller than what you have, and he's still wreaking havoc on Vettes, Mustangs w/ Whipples., etc. Google him up.
You have to right combination of displacement and turbo-size (See Lightningteg's LSVTEC 600whp build), and you'll see a perfect example of how to make a highway runner car.*Hint* - His turbocharger is technically smaller than what you have, and he's still wreaking havoc on Vettes, Mustangs w/ Whipples., etc. Google him up.
10-03-2018, 09:36 PM
#57
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?
100% agree. B16s put it down on the road. I've tuned a handful of 500whp turbo B16s that dead hook in 3rd and pull like a streetbike does. They make torque just not in low rpms and they don't come on as fast as a 89mm stoke motor does.
10-04-2018, 12:25 AM
#58
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Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?
I think what @TheShodan is saying in terms of Torque is that Yes you do not wan't to have too much Torque in the mid-range which simply leads to wheelspin, however the more Torque you have higher up in the rpm band, the faster the car will accelerate into its "power band" - this is what he means by "optimising the torque to weigh ratio". With a 62mm turbo on a 1.8 or 2.0 litre Honda, you'll still only really get into the Torque peak from 6000 rpm onwards, a 4G63 Evo on the other hand can hit full Torque as low as 5000rpm on the same setup but then its not traction limited.
But if you set on staying with the B16, get either the GSC T1 or Kelford "T" cams and give it a try - they should assist in broadening your usable powerband whilst not sacrificing the top end pull. Water methanol injection as previously stated can also help in getting the turbo into its efficiency zone earlier and make sure you using the quickspool/100% duty cycle on spool up/Gain function on whatever boost controller you using.
As another suggestion, DRob from IMW successfully configured a rolling anti-lag system via Hondata on his Turbo K20 Civic - specifically for roll racing. You could benefit from something like that as well.
Do you have any videos of your car in its current setup ?
But if you set on staying with the B16, get either the GSC T1 or Kelford "T" cams and give it a try - they should assist in broadening your usable powerband whilst not sacrificing the top end pull. Water methanol injection as previously stated can also help in getting the turbo into its efficiency zone earlier and make sure you using the quickspool/100% duty cycle on spool up/Gain function on whatever boost controller you using.
As another suggestion, DRob from IMW successfully configured a rolling anti-lag system via Hondata on his Turbo K20 Civic - specifically for roll racing. You could benefit from something like that as well.
Do you have any videos of your car in its current setup ?
10-04-2018, 12:48 AM
#59
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?
Its much more of how much rpm it takes to get from 1 psi to full boost in my opinion.
If its
6000 rpm 5psi
7000 25 psi youll spin like hell.
Thats why you need boost by rpm or even better boost by vehicle speed from a rear wheel sensor.
If your a/r+turbine combo is big for your engine and balanced with the compressor wheel youll climb boost too fast. ON/OFF
If your a/r+turbine combo if ok for your engine but your compressor wheel is on the small side compared to you turbine side youll climb boost too fast. ON/OFF
Small turbine housing with big turbine wheel on a beefy compressor works much better.
Another way is a 4-2 twin scroll setup with a light material wheel. Your first psi come quick and your full boost much later.
If its
6000 rpm 5psi
7000 25 psi youll spin like hell.
Thats why you need boost by rpm or even better boost by vehicle speed from a rear wheel sensor.
If your a/r+turbine combo is big for your engine and balanced with the compressor wheel youll climb boost too fast. ON/OFF
If your a/r+turbine combo if ok for your engine but your compressor wheel is on the small side compared to you turbine side youll climb boost too fast. ON/OFF
Small turbine housing with big turbine wheel on a beefy compressor works much better.
Another way is a 4-2 twin scroll setup with a light material wheel. Your first psi come quick and your full boost much later.
10-04-2018, 02:52 AM
#60
Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?
Its much more of how much rpm it takes to get from 1 psi to full boost in my opinion.
If its
6000 rpm 5psi
7000 25 psi youll spin like hell.
Thats why you need boost by rpm or even better boost by vehicle speed from a rear wheel sensor.
If your a/r+turbine combo is big for your engine and balanced with the compressor wheel youll climb boost too fast. ON/OFF
If your a/r+turbine combo if ok for your engine but your compressor wheel is on the small side compared to you turbine side youll climb boost too fast. ON/OFF
Small turbine housing with big turbine wheel on a beefy compressor works much better.
Another way is a 4-2 twin scroll setup with a light material wheel. Your first psi come quick and your full boost much later.
If its
6000 rpm 5psi
7000 25 psi youll spin like hell.
Thats why you need boost by rpm or even better boost by vehicle speed from a rear wheel sensor.
If your a/r+turbine combo is big for your engine and balanced with the compressor wheel youll climb boost too fast. ON/OFF
If your a/r+turbine combo if ok for your engine but your compressor wheel is on the small side compared to you turbine side youll climb boost too fast. ON/OFF
Small turbine housing with big turbine wheel on a beefy compressor works much better.
Another way is a 4-2 twin scroll setup with a light material wheel. Your first psi come quick and your full boost much later.
10-04-2018, 11:50 AM
#63
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?
No. The traction issue isn't from displacement in this regard, unless using a REALLY small turbocharger (smaller than GTX2860RS). You'd have a better torque-to-weight ratio from a B18 combination of some sort, to keep reasonable rpms and a better powerband for highway "Texas Mile" runs like that. Otherwise, you'd see Evolution Xs with 1.6 litres instead of 2.0-2.3 litres. You have to right combination of displacement and turbo-size (See Lightningteg's LSVTEC 600whp build), and you'll see a perfect example of how to make a highway runner car.
*Hint* - His turbocharger is technically smaller than what you have, and he's still wreaking havoc on Vettes, Mustangs w/ Whipples., etc. Google him up.
You have to right combination of displacement and turbo-size (See Lightningteg's LSVTEC 600whp build), and you'll see a perfect example of how to make a highway runner car.*Hint* - His turbocharger is technically smaller than what you have, and he's still wreaking havoc on Vettes, Mustangs w/ Whipples., etc. Google him up.
Last edited by TheShodan; 10-04-2018 at 09:16 PM.
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