Opinions needed: Turbocharger airflow/size recommendations for 600whp+ LSVTEC - Honda-Tech - Honda Forum Discussion


Forced Induction

Opinions needed: Turbocharger airflow/size recommendations for 600whp+ LSVTEC

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-02-2018, 02:36 PM   #1
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 125
Default Opinions needed: Turbocharger airflow/size recommendations for 600whp+ LSVTEC

what size turbo do you guys recommend for 600whp + that is not a 6262? I am looking for a quick spooling turbo, I donít care for a turbo to start spooling at 6k. Looking for a street turbo with super fast spooling. This will go on a ls\vtec sleeved and fully built. I appreciate the feedback.
Todallybuilt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2018, 02:40 PM   #2
Honda-Tech Member
 
Chance EG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 988
Default re: Opinions needed: Turbocharger airflow/size recommendations for 600whp+ LSVTEC

I'd start by looking at some of the dyno results and compressor maps of the Garret GT(x)35 series.

76mm+ EFR series from BorgWarner would be worth looking at as well.
Chance EG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2018, 05:20 AM   #3
Honda-Tech Member
 
Autoworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: GO AUTOWORKS DOT COM
Posts: 10,705
Default re: Opinions needed: Turbocharger airflow/size recommendations for 600whp+ LSVTEC

What fuel type and compression is the motor? Can you tell us more about the setup?
Autoworks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2018, 06:33 AM   #4
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
 
TheShodan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: City of Wind, IL, USA
Posts: 21,842
Default Re: Opinions needed: Turbocharger airflow/size recommendations for 600whp+ LSVTEC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todallybuilt View Post
what size turbo do you guys recommend for 600whp + that is not a 6262? I am looking for a quick spooling turbo, I donít care for a turbo to start spooling at 6k. Looking for a street turbo with super fast spooling. This will go on a ls\vtec sleeved and fully built. I appreciate the feedback.
No such thing. This has been stated before. 600whp+ & "fast spooling under 6000rpms" isn't happening. Accept that premise now....we're patient. :-)

State your purpose of the car other than "street car", fuel requirements ( type of fuel that will be used major of the time), budget (maximum willingness to spend with an actual $ number stated) , and let's hope you you can stay within a family of turbo that may fit the need.

Also state what YOU have and checked and researched so far to avoid redundancies.
TheShodan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2018, 12:18 PM   #5
Honda-Tech Member
 
Balor_Gr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 324
Default Re: Opinions needed: Turbocharger airflow/size recommendations for 600whp+ LSVTEC

Fast spooling 600whp 2.0L engine. Its a difficult task.
Balor_Gr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2018, 01:22 PM   #6
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 125
Default Re: Opinions needed: Turbocharger airflow/size recommendations for 600whp+ LSVTEC

Fuel components are 2200cc injectors, Walbro 450 fuel pump and e85 lines, AEM fuel rail and fuel pressure regulator. It will running e85 at all times, compression ratio around 10.5:1.
Todallybuilt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2018, 11:55 PM   #7
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
 
TheShodan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: City of Wind, IL, USA
Posts: 21,842
Default Re: Opinions needed: Turbocharger airflow/size recommendations for 600whp+ LSVTEC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todallybuilt View Post
Fuel components are 2200cc injectors, Walbro 450 fuel pump and e85 lines, AEM fuel rail and fuel pressure regulator. It will running e85 at all times, compression ratio around 10.5:1.
Understood. But that doesn't change our answer.
TheShodan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 06:28 AM   #8
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (1)
 
AZ_CIVIC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 1,081
Default Re: Opinions needed: Turbocharger airflow/size recommendations for 600whp+ LSVTEC

I'm assuming he is not going to be drag racing but probably looking to do freeway pulls or something.
AZ_CIVIC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 08:20 AM   #9
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
 
TheShodan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: City of Wind, IL, USA
Posts: 21,842
Default Re: Opinions needed: Turbocharger airflow/size recommendations for 600whp+ LSVTEC

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC View Post
I'm assuming he is not going to be drag racing but probably looking to do freeway pulls or something.
That makes sense. However, those expectations have to be a bit more reasonable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todallybuilt View Post
what size turbo do you guys recommend for 600whp + ..............? I am looking for a quick spooling turbo, I don’t care for a turbo to start spooling at 6k. Looking for a street turbo with super fast spooling.
The turbocharger options that are readily available may possibly have its threshold at less than 6,000rpms, (which isn't unreasonable at all) however, I believe that his definition of "quick spooling" may be much less than that, which is more than likely unreasonable. Only Todalybuilt can elaborate further to help narrow down these options. The basic questions have to be examined first.
TheShodan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 10:19 AM   #10
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (1)
 
AZ_CIVIC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 1,081
Default Re: Opinions needed: Turbocharger airflow/size recommendations for 600whp+ LSVTEC

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
That makes sense. However, those expectations have to be a bit more reasonable.



The turbocharger options that are readily available may possibly have its threshold at less than 6,000rpms, (which isn't unreasonable at all) however, I believe that his definition of "quick spooling" may be much less than that, which is more than likely unreasonable. Only Todalybuilt can elaborate further to help narrow down these options. The basic questions have to be examined first.
I agree, for 600+ horsepower, even if this was used for freeway pulls you don't necessarily need a quick spooling turbo. I mean you're going to be above 6000 RPMS while doing this, drag racing it doesn't matter either because again you will be above 6000 RPMS. Now if he is going for road racing/road course. You will not need 600+ horsepower.

Like you guys said, we really need to know what he is going, I am just assuming.
AZ_CIVIC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 02:59 PM   #11
Honda-Tech Member
 
liam821's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,648
Default Re: Opinions needed: Turbocharger airflow/size recommendations for 600whp+ LSVTEC

You could use NOS to get the turbo to spool, i.e. enable between 3000-6000rpms and <5psi of boost or something. But yeah, I'm with everybody else, 600whp and quick spool isn't gonna happen.
liam821 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 09:10 PM   #12
Honda-Tech Member
 
Geis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 901
Default Re: Opinions needed: Turbocharger airflow/size recommendations for 600whp+ LSVTEC

If it weren't for photobucket, god knows why so many people use(d) it, I would refer to D-rob's thread on a 600whp twin scroll EFR RSX build. A twin scroll 8374 B-series is probably the simplest way to achieve decent spool at that power level.

Two other ideas are compound charging (unlikely) or a quick-spool valve. The latter costs a lot, though I do remember a fellow HT member who used it on a GTX3576r build and had great results. Once again, I WOULD have taken the time to fish that one up for you, but for some reason 99% of forum users have apparently never heard of Imgur, sigh.
Geis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2018, 06:55 AM   #13
Honda-Tech Member
 
LightningTeg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 4,922
Default Re: Opinions needed: Turbocharger airflow/size recommendations for 600whp+ LSVTEC

600whp 2.0 LS/VTEC and "fast spool"? Going to have to come out and say that's what I shot for and achieved to the best of my ability within a reasonable budget. Nothing crazy going on here, just packaging. My Build Thread

84x89 LS/VTEC
STC Interceptor Turbo 60.8mm
Mini ram
Performer X
GSR head
ITR Cams
~10:1 compression
E85

Its kind of a bastard, in that I really wanted to do 1/2 mile stuff with the ability to turn it down to use it on a road course too. 600whp is way to much for any FWD circuit car, so I have to ASSume that this is going to be drag racing and highway pulls. The interceptor shines there. I did have a chance to really push it on some back roads last year and it was pretty damn good to my surprise. Definitely a turbo for longer tracks but it would do OK otherwise. But again, 600whp is nuts. The turbo is fantastic for what it does though.








LightningTeg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2018, 08:19 AM   #14
Honda-Tech Member
 
Chance EG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 988
Default Re: Opinions needed: Turbocharger airflow/size recommendations for 600whp+ LSVTEC

^Beautiful teg, very nice sound too. Power curve looks great for the overall peak output, like you said.
Chance EG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2018, 12:07 PM   #15
Honda-Tech Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 259
Default Re: Opinions needed: Turbocharger airflow/size recommendations for 600whp+ LSVTEC

isnt the upper limits of a gtx3076 around 600whp? seems like that would fit the bill
k20z1ej1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2018, 01:41 PM   #16
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
 
TheShodan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: City of Wind, IL, USA
Posts: 21,842
Default Re: Opinions needed: Turbocharger airflow/size recommendations for 600whp+ LSVTEC

Quote:
Originally Posted by k20z1ej1 View Post
isnt the upper limits of a gtx3076 around 600whp? seems like that would fit the bill
Nope. At over 28-30psi, you're only about 570whp. Compressor map only shows half the story, read that link on the GTX3576R I showed above.

Same compressor wheels as the GTX3076R, but better turbine wheel for 600whp (N111 68'm, same as three GT3582R
TheShodan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2018, 02:12 PM   #17
Honda-Tech Member
 
liam821's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,648
Default Re: Opinions needed: Turbocharger airflow/size recommendations for 600whp+ LSVTEC

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
Nope. At over 28-30psi, you're only about 570whp. Compressor map only shows half the story, read that link on the GTX3576R I showed above.

Same compressor wheels as the GTX3076R, but better turbine wheel for 600whp (N111 68'm, same as three GT3582R
At that power levels gonna be at the far right of the compressor map... that's a solid 450whp but 500+ is really stretching it.
liam821 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2018, 03:26 PM   #18
Honda-Tech Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 259
Default Re: Opinions needed: Turbocharger airflow/size recommendations for 600whp+ LSVTEC

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
Nope. At over 28-30psi, you're only about 570whp. Compressor map only shows half the story, read that link on the GTX3576R I showed above.

Same compressor wheels as the GTX3076R, but better turbine wheel for 600whp (N111 68'm, same as three GT3582R
10-4
k20z1ej1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2018, 09:36 AM   #19
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 125
Default Re: Opinions needed: Turbocharger airflow/size recommendations for 600whp+ LSVTEC

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
That makes sense. However, those expectations have to be a bit more reasonable.



The turbocharger options that are readily available may possibly have its threshold at less than 6,000rpms, (which isn't unreasonable at all) however, I believe that his definition of "quick spooling" may be much less than that, which is more than likely unreasonable. Only Todalybuilt can elaborate further to help narrow down these options. The basic questions have to be examined first.
This setup will be mostly for highway pulls. As crazy as this sounds I have a friend with a B20vtec fully built pushing 410whp with a Garrett t3/t4 .60ar and he keeps pulling way ahead of other guys. He raced a guy with fully built ls/vtec with s366 and another one with a fully built gsr with s300 both cars making well over 530whp. They raced a bunch of times always with the same outcome, he pulls way ahead them, then they pass him on the top end around 130mph if not more, basically by the time the race is pretty much done. I have been in his car as well as the other guys cars while they race with the same outcome every time and they have race a bunch of times from a 30, 40 and 60 roll.

So for my new build my goal is to make 600whp or more and I would like to be able to pull ahead of others super fast, that's why I want a turbo that can accomplish this goal.
Todallybuilt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2018, 10:04 AM   #20
Honda-Tech Member
 
Chance EG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 988
Default Re: Opinions needed: Turbocharger airflow/size recommendations for 600whp+ LSVTEC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todallybuilt View Post
So for my new build my goal is to make 600whp or more and I would like to be able to pull ahead of others super fast, that's why I want a turbo that can accomplish this goal.
Gearing and traction are going to be critical to examine as well. You'll want to optimize your acceleration and make sure you take max RPM into account, and what RPM you'll be falling to in between shifts so you stay in boost. Provisions for flat footed or power/sequential shifting would also be nice but probably much beyond the scope of what you're trying to accomplish.

A twin scroll GTX or EFR is still what I'd be looking into, but like others are saying "responsive" becomes a subjective term at these levels. Nitrous for lower RPM, or pre-boost is also an interesting option and would definitely be effective, but complicates things.
Chance EG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2018, 11:05 AM   #21
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (1)
 
AZ_CIVIC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 1,081
Default Re: Opinions needed: Turbocharger airflow/size recommendations for 600whp+ LSVTEC

Freeway racing lower RPM's don't really matter because there is no reason that you should be in low rpm's. You should be dropping low enough between shifts unless you shift super slow.
AZ_CIVIC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2018, 12:43 PM   #22
Honda-Tech Member
 
LightningTeg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 4,922
Default Re: Opinions needed: Turbocharger airflow/size recommendations for 600whp+ LSVTEC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todallybuilt View Post
This setup will be mostly for highway pulls. As crazy as this sounds I have a friend with a B20vtec fully built pushing 410whp with a Garrett t3/t4 .60ar and he keeps pulling way ahead of other guys. He raced a guy with fully built ls/vtec with s366 and another one with a fully built gsr with s300 both cars making well over 530whp. They raced a bunch of times always with the same outcome, he pulls way ahead them, then they pass him on the top end around 130mph if not more, basically by the time the race is pretty much done. I have been in his car as well as the other guys cars while they race with the same outcome every time and they have race a bunch of times from a 30, 40 and 60 roll.

So for my new build my goal is to make 600whp or more and I would like to be able to pull ahead of others super fast, that's why I want a turbo that can accomplish this goal.
Sounds like your buddies opponents cant drive or dont have traction.
LightningTeg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2018, 01:27 PM   #23
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
 
TheShodan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: City of Wind, IL, USA
Posts: 21,842
Default Re: Opinions needed: Turbocharger airflow/size recommendations for 600whp+ LSVTEC

Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningTeg View Post
Sounds like your buddies opponents cant drive or dont have traction.
I would agree with that.. These must be peak power numbers, these guys are making, and it's difficult to make any more than 550 whp stay to the ground, unless a lot of supplemental components are used, as in Lightnungteg's situation.

OP should really read up on all of lightningteg's video adventures & conquests both as an LS & as n. LSVTEC . His is the methodology you want to follow.
TheShodan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2018, 01:11 AM   #24
Honda-Tech Member
 
extremeracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Johannesburg, Gauteng, South Africa
Posts: 389
Default Re: Opinions needed: Turbocharger airflow/size recommendations for 600whp+ LSVTEC

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
I would agree with that.. These must be peak power numbers, these guys are making, and it's difficult to make any more than 550 whp stay to the ground, unless a lot of supplemental components are used, as in Lightnungteg's situation.

OP should really read up on all of lightningteg's video adventures & conquests both as an LS & as n. LSVTEC . His is the methodology you want to follow.
@OP: Best advice to follow. As The Shodan has pointed out in the thread you need to be careful of both undersizing and oversizing your turbo selection. Some turbos that claim to offer 600+hp capability in reality fall short due to undersized turbine wheels and 'generous' marketing literature (eg GTX3076) . Other turbo's will again deliver heaps of top-end power but have slow spool and transient response (6266 journal bearing).

A 60 - 62mm turbo is probably the right range for your goals and it happens to be the most universally accepted turbo size for a 600 - 700 hp 4 cylinder. Look into the STC Garrett based turbos like the Interceptor in the video, alternatively a Precision 6062, EFR8374 in twin-scroll config or BW 362 SX-E all fall into that ballpark. If transient response is your main concern then stick to the ball-bearing options (GTX35, STC, EFR, Precision BB). Some of the 57 - 59 mm turbos might get you to the 600whp mark but they'll be at their limit and require a very efficient setup (no restrictions on inatke manifold, cams, turbo manifold, exhaust and intercooler)

You'll also want boost-by-gear or boost-by-speed, Toyo R888's as a minimum or ideally drag radials, LSD and sorted suspension in order to put the power down in a non drag-strip/slick tyre environment. My EG hatch made ~600whp and on normal street tyres I could still light up the front wheels in 4th gear at that power level...
extremeracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2018, 12:24 PM   #25
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (1)
 
AZ_CIVIC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 1,081
Default Re: Opinions needed: Turbocharger airflow/size recommendations for 600whp+ LSVTEC

My question is if doing highway racing why limit yourself to 600whp LOL.
AZ_CIVIC is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
TORQUE SPECS FOR SPOOL VALVE 2007 ODYSSEY hagsmich Odyssey | Ridgeline | MDX | Pilot | RDX | HR-V 0 01-25-2018 08:29 PM
Idea to increase spool for big turbos Roy Leyva Forced Induction 16 10-07-2017 07:00 PM
help choosing turbo, d16 300whp 97_ek_coupe Forced Induction 30 03-24-2017 08:01 AM
Fast spooling turbo that's doesn't break the bank? the_insider Forced Induction 24 06-09-2016 04:13 PM
Fast spooling turbo that's doesn't break the bank? the_insider Road Racing / Autocross & Time Attack 5 06-02-2016 11:37 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:58 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: