tgeorgersx

Hey guys my names thomas, I am new to the forum but i wanted some help with my car. I have an LS/vtec setup in my car right now and it holds together very good! Its a b18b1 block with a gsr head and ARP headstuds. It has a Holset 40 turbo on it and it is kinda laggy but the car makes good power. Havent had it dynoed but it should be close to 400 whp. My bottom end is being pushed hard and i doubt the block will take much more abuse. I wanted to get some guidance to building a motor.
I have a b20a4 block with darton sleeves in it and a spare gsr head with a 5 angle valve job, Ferrea 6000 milli oversized valves, supertech guides, valve springs. Tritium retainers with matching caps and rails. I beleive i just need cams and some other parts to finish the head. I also have a gsr block laying around and someone actually told me to upgrade the b20 crank to a gsr crank. Any opinions are very welcome. Looking to do a high compression motor that can break 600 hp.

Schister66

Keep the B20/LS crank - its an 89mm vs the GSR's 87.2mm stroke. There's no need to swap it out IMO.

What fuel are you planning to run?

tgeorgersx

I plan on running E85. I was going to run a dual fuel pump setup with some bigger injectors to make sure I wouldn't run out of fuel.

LightningTeg

You wont need 2 pumps. There are some good single pump options out there these days (Walbro 450, a few brands of "320"s etc). Personally I like the 450's.

What is the purpose of the car? Just trying to make a bunch of power? Depending on what cams you have now, you wont need aftermarket ones either.

tgeorgersx

I've also heard good things about the walbro 450! I have a dual pump hanger so I figured I would use it but the dual pump would be a pain to wire up. And basically roll racing on the street and occasionally going to the track to do rolls and some digs
i have stock gsr cams in my car right now but my spare gsr head has no cams!

Schister66

I'll second the single 450 Walbro option. Couple that with a set of 2000cc injectors and you'll have more than enough fuel volume.

tgeorgersx

Thanks guys I really appreciate all the feed back! How about the motor? What are the most important parts that I'll need? The bottom end has darton sleeves and stock b20 crank. I just need Pistons and rods as far as I know.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

There are several builds that have easily done what you're proposing on the B-series hybrid builds. take a look at what's needed regarding the "How to build an LS/VTEC", then apply turbo information that you've learned to that engine.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-mo...0vtec-1676914/

Then,when you purchase your pistons/rods, make sure you go through the catalog as though it is a B16/B18 or B16/B20 options. Then you'll know a general idea of your static compression ratio with the components that you plan to use.

2kdrift

The B20 crank is the same as an LS crank same part # and everything so dont get confused there.

most important parts would be the pistons and rods, since you already have a sleeved block. tons of good info on that thread shodan posted

tgeorgersx

Awesome thanks a Bunch! I'll look into that thread a bit more

EsotericImage

iTrader: (8)

Actually, the GSR crank is a better option for higher revs..

I know the extra stroke of the B20 crank is a no brainer, but after reading ENDYNE's build, he explains why the GSR's stroke is more linear for power (just as hondas engineers designed it)


I cant remember which article it was.. it was listed here. Happy reading!

http://theoldone.com/archive/

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

"Higher revs" is a subjective term. It really depends upon pulse and use. Many use the idea of higher revs to make more power when they're really looking for a better torqueband, not power.

I only agree with Honda's logic to a point. They never put the idea of using a turbocharger into the "B series design equation" for it's use.so that has to be taken into account separately

tgeorgersx

Only reason I'm not using the gsr block is because the b20 is sleeved already! Would I be better off buying a new crank for the b20?

EsotericImage

iTrader: (8)

ohh, well if its sleeved already.. do your thing

2kdrift

well the cranks are interchangeable, just as some use a LS crank in a GSR block to avoid LS VTEC oil kit.

I prefer the gsr crank myself, but there are benefits to each as shodan pointed out

Pro60modman

With a properly built setup there is no need or advantage to going with a GSR crank on a boosted LS /B20 setup. If you have a sleeved B20 block then run the 89mm crank. If you want the better R/S of the GSR then run the longer Eagle rod and call Wiseco and have them move the piston pin up the difference in length of the rod. The cost of the piston wont change. Eagle makes 3 different length rods for the LS and B20 blocks.

EDIT: Also did you mean B20B4? The A4 is an old Prelude motor I believe and not compatible with the LS or VTEC b series.

tgeorgersx

I'm kind of a noob at this whole thing! I didn't know gsr cranks could be used on b20 blocks! I might see how solid the b20 block is and then go from there!
It is a possibility that I need a new crank and yes I believe it is a b4 but I'll have to double check

Pro60modman

There is no need to use the GSR crank on a sleeved and forged B20 engine. The increase in spool up and torque will greatly out weigh the reduction in the overall rev range. If you still want rev it out over 9000 reliably then get the Eagle 5.531" LS Rods and call your chosen piston manufacturer and have them reduce the compression height by .137". This will bring your R/S up to 1.57 and maintain the advertised piston compression. It is the combination we use for our circle trck 84.5mmx89mm GSR block B16 head setups that rev over 10k for 2-3 years with minimal maintenance.

2kdrift

to each their own for some of us "there is no need to ever use an ls crank" I personally dont want anymore stroke/displacement and the minute increase in revs is just an added bonus

tgeorgersx

How high does the b20 rev out to? My LS bottom end I have right now revs out to 8250 at the moment. What does everyone here think about ferrera 6000 valves? Would they last in a boosted setup?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

You're equating RPM with power capability. That only works to a point. When you have additional displacement by an increasing stroke, you would actually lower the maximum rpm limit because the piston would be travelling the same feet per second speed at a lower rpm, as a smaller displacement (specifically looking at stroke here) at a higher rpm. So, the question is very vague. There's no particular number that you aim for..

You tune the car's rpm capability until it no longer makes power, or you're close to experiencing valve float or bind, which can be seen on the dyno chart graph when extrapolated. Cliffs: You increase rpm until it stops making power

Tell you what, I'll put it like this. Most B20Z and B20Bs with their 89mm stroke do about 8200-8800rpms, depending upon the components, cylinder head, tune, etc. You really want to start looking at the turbocharger choices at that point to make sure that they match with your purpose of the car.

High rpms on street cars are mainly for bragging rights, and are rarely for anything useful as a practical matter. When you're increasing displacement like you are, you're looking for a better torqueband for the street car, and not just power. So, "high rpms" is really kind of an irrelevant question.

2kdrift

my street gsr is set to 8400, on the otherhand my tuners fully built drag car LS bottom end revs to 9k. So it really depends on the setup. I agree with shodan here rev limits are overated and stick with what the dyno tells you

tgeorgersx

I'm not big into high reving motors, I agree it is kind of a bragging rights thing but as long as I make power to 8k I would be happy. Have you guys heard good things about the ferrera 6000 valves?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Making power to "8k" is bragging again. All GSR heads at stock camshaft will always taper a bit... Don't worry about the rpm.. Let the tuner worry about that.

Ferrea 6000 valves are fine. Been like this for years