B18C GSR CIVIC

Please help, Ive searched the **** out of theis topic to no help.

heres the situation:

I got a brand new dart race block. It was assembled by a shop in toronto and then head was assembled by my mech here, It was put in the car, all the new turbo set up was then attatched and boom, my car is running. I went threw for some reason a rad issue and once overheating due to fan not turning on and thats fixed no prob. Car runs mint for the break in period. I have about 300km's om it now.

BUT,

The oil pan is leaking from what appears to be 2 specific spots and I guess all over, first i try to tighten a bit more and no helping so I get a new oem honda rubber gasket and some gasket sealer lube. I take off the pan and clean everything ALL NICE and re install the new gasket and tq to 8"/lb's w/ no sealer as you REALLY shouldnt need it. I ALSO MADE SURE THE PAN HAD NO BENDS OR CURVES IN IT, LAYED IT FLAT ON A FLOOR AND IT WAS ALL FLAT, EACH RAISED PART TOUTCHING THE FLOOR.

Okay So i start it after putting oil in and go for a quick 2 min boot around teh block, get back, let it idle for 1 min, look under and there it is, leaking from EXACT SAME SPOTS AGAIN!

Back to garage and off it all comes again. This time i re-use the what 1-2km gasket and I put the rtv sealent on the pan after cleaning it all up as last time. I get it back onto the block and again t/q down to the same, I let sit for a hour, then i came back, made sure they all still t/q same and I add oil and go for same small boot around block, Come back and its the EXACT SAME AGAIN. Maybe worse then the very first time the leak was tehe from the shop building it in toronto.

So what the hell should i do or can i do TO STOP THE LEAKING, Maybe the dart blocks have a issue with this or they dont like stock oil pans.

All i can do is again get a new gasget tomm, more oil and try putting rtv on pan and block and super seal it, let it sit with no oil added for ONE FULL DAY to CURE.

PLEASE, thanks,

pics of maybe weird **** on the dart block, if you look where i circled the pics, its like there is a gap where dart puts there blocks togehter. Is it possioble that oil is somehow seeping threw there and then spreading all across the pan from the 4 corners and its FORSURE in 2 corners.

BACK SIDE CLOSEST TO TRANNY


BACK SIDE CLOSEST TO TRANNY AGAIN


BACK SIDE CLOSE TO CRANK PULLY


FRONT SIDE CLOSE TO MOUNT

SlowTeg

My only suggestion is use rtv on both sides of the oil pan gasket. Mine seals perfectly w/o any leaks. One problem with the Moroso pan is that it has no ridges in it to help the rubber gasket stay positioned. When you torque down the moroso pan, you'll notice the gasket smooshes out pretty easily because of this, which is a pita. Basically I just try and make sure it's not too smooshed and relatively centered w/ rtv on both sides and it seems ok. Good luck.

-Mike

SL0WEGG

maybe its not your pan leaking. could it be possible that the seal on the oil pump is leaking? had the same problem on an ls/vtec setup. didnt put the pump on properly. well the front seal didnt seat properly and it kept leaking from that same area that your talking about near the crank pulley. took the pump out and put it back on and it doesnt leak anymore

USDM 4G VTEC

clean the mating surfaces of the oil pan gasket with carb clearner or break parts cleaner

that way u know theres no oil, or impurities

get a new gasket... and do not use a tq wrench,.... i know the book says 7-8
dont do it,. i just build my engine and AFTER 2k mi i had also to change the gasket bc i overtq it and leaked bad (1 qt every 2 days)

IMO
get some honda bond.. and fill all those gaps on the block,,. use a blade and make sure its perfectky flat and nice once it dries!!!!!

afterwards, aply just a bit of HONDABOND on the corners of the gasket (where it curbs) and re apply....
tq the bolts by hand until they just dont go any longer (just use the weight of ur hand)( a nice trick is that if u are RH use ur left, and if u are LH, do it with the right.. that way u are not applying as much strenght)
once they are snug, just give it another 1/4 to 1/2 turn more and be done... after all 20, redo all again to make sure they are all about the same

then let us know

B18C GSR CIVIC

Thanks but I jacked car up and let it run. You can see it start to come from the gasket area. Its not the main seal either, It like comes from all around the gasket.

metal-x

I had similar problem when I got my new short block installed, it appeared to be leaking from the oil pan but it turned out to be a broken Oring seal in the oil pump and oil just driped onto the oil pan

B18C GSR CIVIC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by metal-x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I had similar problem when I got my new short block installed, it appeared to be leaking from the oil pan but it turned out to be a broken Oring seal in the oil pump and oil just driped onto the oil pan</TD></TR></TABLE>

I dont think it is that though, I will talk to my mech tomm and see what he says and all. I mean its FRESH engine. everything is brand new.

If it was for any reason the oil seal in the pump assembly it wouldnt leak like what we saw after a time spand of 2 mins the block is COMPLETELY CLEAN, it has to be coming from the pan and seeping thre like no tommorow

thanks and PLEASE KEEP EM COMMING, I will update after talking to builder and mech tomm, WTF and I have to pay for all this when I just spend like **** I dont even want to guess on this build and set up.

B18C GSR CIVIC

I went ti bed and got up hoping for more but nothing. So here is a up hoping someone out there forsre knows what is best.

I called the builder in toronto and he doesnt understand. All he said he can do is call dart and see what they think could be up

JDubya

I know what you're going through. My oil pan is leaking too. The first time was real bad. When I would shut my car off it would leak BAD. So I tightened the bolts some and it got better, but not good enough. So I took my DP back off (PITA) and dropped the pan, cleaned everything, Hondabond where Helms says, retorqued in the proper sequence, blah blah... and it still leaks. Except now it's only a drip. If it sits over night there is a small oil spot about 2.5" accross. I'm just going to try a new pan next, I dont know what else to do.

Oil leaks Hope you get it figured out...

Slater

Did you make sure there was only 2 metal crush washers in the gasket and that's it? Sometimes if you forget them (I've seen gaskets not come with them too) they stick to the block and then you stick on the new gasket and have a leakage problem because there are 2 stacked up. Also, if your pan gasket didn't come with them, or if they fell out in the bag and you didn't see them, the gasket can leak because the gasket gets deformed too much (that's what the washers help prevent).

Just a thought, I know this is a new Dart block so you shouldn't have this issue, but I thought I would mention it anways.

- Slater

B18C GSR CIVIC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Slater &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did you make sure there was only 2 metal crush washers in the gasket and that's it? - Slater

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Forsure, block SUPER CLEAN, GASKET SUPER CLEAN

I talked to my mech and I know we have a huge race day this up coming sat but he said to call him wed to see when he can give it a go. He says he is sure he can fix it. I hope so as I and my buddys did everything

B18C GSR CIVIC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ALL MOTOR LS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know what you're going through. My oil pan is leaking too. The first time was real bad. When I would shut my car off it would leak BAD. So I tightened the bolts some and it got better, but not good enough. So I took my DP back off (PITA) and dropped the pan, cleaned everything, Hondabond where Helms says, retorqued in the proper sequence, blah blah... and it still leaks. Except now it's only a drip. If it sits over night there is a small oil spot about 2.5" accross. I'm just going to try a new pan next, I dont know what else to do.

Oil leaks Hope you get it figured out...</TD></TR></TABLE>

ya ive done all that as well. My pan was fine every other year so shoudl be no different now as I said when i took it off, it was all flat on the flooe surface so

Ill see what my mech can do.

DaX

iTrader: (1)

IMHO, 8 ft-lbf is too much. I hand tighten them i sequence and then give about a quarter turn with a wrench. No leaking, no broken studs, no lost nuts.

And don't try to re-use the gasket. Once it leaks, it's toast. I tried it, and pissed myself off because it still leaked and I had to take everything off and do it again.

If the gasket is pooching out from btw the pan and the block, it is going to leak.

mike1114

iTrader: (1)

9 ft lbs is what book says for GSR.

Just like slater said.......

I bet it is the crush washers that are by the flywheel cover. When you pull off your old gasket, they washers stick on there sometimes and then when you put the new gasket on, the extra washers will prevent the pan from seating correctly.

I had this same problem too.

But just as a fyi, my oil pan always sweats a little oil around the gasket, nothing that ever drops on the ground, I just notice it when I'm under my car. Normal turbo car thing.

B18C GSR CIVIC

100% not a washer. I know to check those stupid easy things!

I wouldnt mind if it sweated a bit, but man after a good drive last night and sitting in one spot for a hour while my roll cage guy was taking measurments I must have had a good 7-9 oil spots and 3 main ones each easily 3" around

You are able to easily re use a gasket, esp if it has only been on car for less then a day, you just have to make sure it has no flat spots or pinches in it and its clean.

Also I know to NOT OVER TIGHTEN it at all to the point wher its bulging out alot.

SO my mech says to call him and he will look at it this week. The builder in toronto called DART and they have no clue, The builder in t dot is sending me another oil pan to try and I dunno. Hope to have it all fixed soon enough. For teh 100 threads ive read on this on h/t, You dont see to many simple answeres but the usuall, um tq to 6-8", clean ****, hondabond aroudn corners, make sure the 2 metal jams arnt stuck in the trany side bolts. Everything has been done by myself and to no hope.

Ill have to see what chris, my mech can find, do!

turbo*s2k

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by metal-x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I had similar problem when I got my new short block installed, it appeared to be leaking from the oil pan but it turned out to be a broken Oring seal in the oil pump and oil just driped onto the oil pan</TD></TR></TABLE>

I had the same problem. It appreared to be the oil pan gasket, but it was an o-ring on the oil pump that I forgot to put back on... I went through 3 oil pan gaskets before I realized where it was coming from.

turbo*s2k

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C GSR CIVIC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">100% not a washer. I know to check those stupid easy things!

I wouldnt mind if it sweated a bit, but man after a good drive last night and sitting in one spot for a hour while my roll cage guy was taking measurments I must have had a good 7-9 oil spots and 3 main ones each easily 3" around

You are able to easily re use a gasket, esp if it has only been on car for less then a day, you just have to make sure it has no flat spots or pinches in it and its clean.

Also I know to NOT OVER TIGHTEN it at all to the point wher its bulging out alot.

SO my mech says to call him and he will look at it this week. The builder in toronto called DART and they have no clue, The builder in t dot is sending me another oil pan to try and I dunno. Hope to have it all fixed soon enough. For teh 100 threads ive read on this on h/t, You dont see to many simple answeres but the usuall, um tq to 6-8", clean ****, hondabond aroudn corners, make sure the 2 metal jams arnt stuck in the trany side bolts. Everything has been done by myself and to no hope.

Ill have to see what chris, my mech can find, do!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Have you removed the oil pump? It's possible that maybe the o-ring(s) are not seated right or perhaps pinched, and snapped...

Wideopentuning

I am assuming its a stamped steel pan with a flat gasket? Go to your local ford dealership and get a tube of Ford RTV. It comes in a caulking tube. Use that instead of the gasket and I promise your leak will dissapear. I''ve seen my VW vr6's do the same thing you are describing and the Ford stuff works everytime. Only stuff I seal my motors with.

DaX

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Wideopentuning &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am assuming its a stamped steel pan with a flat gasket? Go to your local ford dealership and get a tube of Ford RTV. It comes in a caulking tube. Use that instead of the gasket and I promise your leak will dissapear. I''ve seen my VW vr6's do the same thing you are describing and the Ford stuff works everytime. Only stuff I seal my motors with.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Right...then when you go to remove the pan, you bend the **** out of it because you RTV'd it to the block. I doubt Ford's RTV is any different from Honda's or anyone else's.

turboex

This may make you mad, but heres the problem, I know cause it happened to me too. its not the pan thats leaking. its the casting plugs. See i had the 3ed dart block built a few years back and had the same problem. When dart puts these blocks together they use pipe thread plugs in the casting holes. Locations are
(oil plug)behind and above flywheel, (oil plug)Above oil pump, Oil and coonat, there are 2)back off block abover the black box and to the timing cover side near oil filter, and (coolant plug)to the left of the header. See the problem is that dart does not use any sealant in any of those plugs. And alot of import shops seem to think they do. And also some times there just in there tight enough not to leak, so people let it go. I had it out on the phone with Tom and dart a few years ago about this, just asking why they did not uses the original honda design with a washer. But any ways pull the timing cover and look to the top left of the oil pump I got ten bucks says its leaking there, as this is where one of the plugs is located. On the flywheel side yes the tranny has to come off to fix it. It may look like its the oil pan gasket but it runs down in the tranny, misses the crank and then goes through the joint where the tranny and motor meet and looks just like an oil pan leak. Sorry for the bad news, but im sure this will help. If you need anymore help on this write me at damianhindley@yahoo.com Ive been there done that. Also when using a dart block remove the oil can/back box and run a freeze plug/edyne setup. Cause the casting is sharp there and can rip the o-ring on the black box.

turboex

Oh if you dont wat to pull the timing cover to check this, just get the car on jacks and wipe the rear area dwon where the oil pump meets the block on the back side of the motor. The have your boy start the car and give it a bit of gas. You will see oil running down the seam where the oil pump meets the block on the rear side. Folow this up and your will see the pipe plug.

B18C GSR CIVIC

thanks and i gues sya it is possible. again I will have to tal to the builder shop in t dot and he can contact dart. I would think that over the 3 years they would have fixed this or maybe the builder shop wold have been sure to put extra silicone or sealer in there to fix this issue.

So anwyays how do you fix it, if it is the problem?

thanks,

Kenny

turboex

just use tefflon tape on them and your good to go. Pull them all. and no they have not fixed it as they told me its the installers prob. easy fix, just have to pull tranny, and timing cover. Tell your installer this too. That way they wont make the same mistake twice. Its not really darts fault as you should pull these plugs to hot tank it anyways. But ya know **** happens.

B18C GSR CIVIC

here is what I just did, I got my g/f to sit in the recaro and start up my bitch. after her fighting the clutch she got it going. We let it idle for 2 mins with me under looking EVERYWHERE. Nothing yet. Okay then i had her do 40 sec holdig rpm at 4000 and then off for 20 and back on for a good 2 mins and i saw the first one. Coming from above the pan driver side rear, right from i guess the oil pump area. Nothing else really but it shows that you were correct. Its not the oil pan at all. See I can do alot of work myself but this isnt somethign I can do and I know its gonna be a ton of labour hours to fix this ****.

So i guess my mech will know the deal but he has to rip it apart and i guess take thse plugs out assuming he is able to and then put them back in with teflon tape around them. Doesnt seem right to me, but ive never done this personally so I dunno. Wouldnt you just take the plugs out and be sure to put them back in using a good sealer?

thanks Kenny

B18C GSR CIVIC

I only took 2 pics when engine was out of car b4 head was put on and you can see the rear seals were sealed and so was the one in front so as my main 2 PROBLEM AREAS are oil plug by oil pump and tranny.