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9:1 aries piston 86mm
rods say scat on the bolts assuming they are scat. came with the bisi piston/rod combo
cnc werx cylinder support system
arp studs
oem head gasket
bisi pro race springs
bisi lvl 1.2 cam
1000cc rc injectors
h23 plenum f22a6 runners
action clutch
gen one dsm manifold
and a tiny evo3 16g turbo. at its max
350hp 298 tq and a heart breaker dyno
Beautiful.... I love it man. And it's a DAMN shiny "turd" if I do say so myself. I've got one question though, because I was only recently put on to these by my tuner,... How's the CNC Werx system holding up? And more importantly, how much did that run you, in total (shipping and all)? Cause you dohave to ship them the block, right? Yea I'm really curious about this system because, the way he explained it to me, it's MUCH cheaper than most, if not all, of the other options out there and it's much more effective. So I'm very interested in hearing from someone that's actually got some first-hand experience with it... so plz, if you don't mind, enlighten me good sir?
I have a question for everyone here in this Thread.... What kind of gas mileage are yall averaging?
I took a REALLY rough estimate the other day, using the full-tank/distance-traveled (the latter being measured via my GPS since my odometers shot) method, and I came up with somewhere around 17-18mpg!? And most of those were highway miles! Needless to say that's pretty bad gas mileage so I'm curious what you guys are seeing with your boosted F setups? Thx in advance!
I always just divided the amount of miles I had been on a tank by the amount it took to fill it up. So if I went 280 miles and it took 11 gallons. I got roughly 25.5mpg that tank.
If it's running rich then that's definitely a contributing factor. If the corrections in the tune are setup right it should have a stable AFR year round regardless of ECT, IATs, etc etc. It's possible you need to talk to your tuner about touching up your corrections. Your low compression is also a contributing factor as they get worse fuel economy than a higher compression counterpart. If you're carrying around a lot of weight like tools, big subwoofer/amp, etc that will contribute. For cruising the engine can be leaner than stoich as well. I usually tune for 15.5-15.8 in the cruising maps. Some people go even further than that and do 16-16.2 for maximum efficiency. Just gotta watch your temps if you go that lean.
Thank you Aradin... those are some very useful nuggets! And I did have my tuner touch-up the tune when the weather began getting cold because I was seeing absolute washout level rich AFR's on cold starts and while idling; I'm talking between 9-11afr!? So he touched it up a bit and it seemed to get better for a month or 2 but now I'm seeing 12's again, quite a bit more frequently then I'd like, while idling and on cold starts. I'm due to recalibrate my wideband though too so I'm gonna try that first and if I'm still seeing the same numbers I'll give him a call. Regardless though I just want to thank you again for tips and feedback...Thanks man.
It's completely normal to see some richer mixtures when the engine is warming up but not that rich. Once the engine is fully warmed up the AFRs should be consistent all year regardless of outside temperature. Setting up closed loop is very helpful in correcting small fueling issues in the tune so do so if you haven't already. Depending on your EMS most of the parameters related to that are fully adjustable and you can actually set the target AFR to whatever you want it to be during closed loop operation.
It's completely normal to see some richer mixtures when the engine is warming up but not that rich. Once the engine is fully warmed up the AFRs should be consistent all year regardless of outside temperature. Setting up closed loop is very helpful in correcting small fueling issues in the tune so do so if you haven't already. Depending on your EMS most of the parameters related to that are fully adjustable and you can actually set the target AFR to whatever you want it to be during closed loop operation.
I was not at all aware of this? That's great though, I'll have to give my guy a call and see if he set up the closed loop, because it certainly seems like he did not? I'm seeing AFR fluctuations from day to day/min to min and there really doesn't seem to be any consistency even though all the conditions appear to be the same (coolant temps/oil temps/under load/no load/etc/etc..)? Like, I'll literally stop at one place and park and my AFR's will be in the 14-15 range (while idling) and then 10mins later I'll stop somewhere else and park and see AFR's in the 11-12 range!?.... Yet nothing has changed!? And all I keep thinking is how long before this destroys my pistons/cylinder walls? Smh... Not to mention that I'm FLYING through tanks of gas!
I was not at all aware of this? That's great though, I'll have to give my guy a call and see if he set up the closed loop, because it certainly seems like he did not? I'm seeing AFR fluctuations from day to day/min to min and there really doesn't seem to be any consistency even though all the conditions appear to be the same (coolant temps/oil temps/under load/no load/etc/etc..)? Like, I'll literally stop at one place and park and my AFR's will be in the 14-15 range (while idling) and then 10mins later I'll stop somewhere else and park and see AFR's in the 11-12 range!?.... Yet nothing has changed!? And all I keep thinking is how long before this destroys my pistons/cylinder walls? Smh... Not to mention that I'm FLYING through tanks of gas!
Oh! I'm on Neptune RTP btw.
Do you have your wideband wired to your ecu for logging afr? Or do you still have the stock narrowband installed? I have my closed loop setup with the stock o2 targeting about 15.3-1 afr.
Do you have your wideband wired to your ecu for logging afr? Or do you still have the stock narrowband installed? I have my closed loop setup with the stock o2 targeting about 15.3-1 afr.
Yes, my wideband goes to the ECU... I got rid of the stock o2 sensor.
Yes, my wideband goes to the ECU... I got rid of the stock o2 sensor.
You can use your wideband for closed loop too. What wb do you have? It's pretty easy to setup closed loop operation. Let me know if you need help I can walk you through how to set it up.
Yup. Neptune RTP has wideband emulation. It works well. You will need the voltage table for your wideband though. It doesn't target a specific AFR value, but rather a voltage value that correlates with that.
Also recommend changing your oil after you get it all figured out. Fuel contaminated oil can cause damage to skirts, cylinders and bearings. I've seen it first hand in a few cases and it doesn't take long for the damage to manifest.
You can use your wideband for closed loop too. What wb do you have? It's pretty easy to setup closed loop operation. Let me know if you need help I can walk you through how to set it up.
I've got the Innovate MTX-L... and I'll be shooting you a pm soon. Thanks man
Originally Posted by Aradin
Yup. Neptune RTP has wideband emulation. It works well. You will need the voltage table for your wideband though. It doesn't target a specific AFR value, but rather a voltage value that correlates with that.
Also recommend changing your oil after you get it all figured out. Fuel contaminated oil can cause damage to skirts, cylinders and bearings. I've seen it first hand in a few cases and it doesn't take long for the damage to manifest.
Thanks Aradin, I had no idea about the contaminated oil causing so much damage. I definitely need to get on this asap cause it's surely not getting better on it's own if anything it's getting worse. Also do you know where I might find those voltage tables? Thx again
OOOooooooohhh!!!...... I likey!
Is this your newest project Tim? Or is this someone else's car you're working on? I'd LOVE to see that manifold setup!? I thought you sold your CD tho?
Beautiful.... I love it man. And it's a DAMN shiny "turd" if I do say so myself. I've got one question though, because I was only recently put on to these by my tuner,... How's the CNC Werx system holding up? And more importantly, how much did that run you, in total (shipping and all)? Cause you dohave to ship them the block, right? Yea I'm really curious about this system because, the way he explained it to me, it's MUCH cheaper than most, if not all, of the other options out there and it's much more effective. So I'm very interested in hearing from someone that's actually got some first-hand experience with it... so plz, if you don't mind, enlighten me good sir?
cnc werx is holding up good. i put it in for "just in case" reasons. like the day when it gets a bigger turbo and more boost. other than the turbo the motor should be able to make to stay together at 500 hp. the block shipped to and from cnc werx with the css installed was about 500 bucks. this didnt include decking the block. another reason why i put it in was the b20 css with small turbos were still cracking sleeves at 400-500hp the 700hp ones were not. since i used a really small turbo i wanted to protect the sleeves as much as possible. the dyno dont really show that it is making 12psi at 3k rpm, the tiny turbo i used is hard on parts.
cnc werx is holding up good. i put it in for "just in case" reasons. like the day when it gets a bigger turbo and more boost. other than the turbo the motor should be able to make to stay together at 500 hp. the block shipped to and from cnc werx with the css installed was about 500 bucks. this didnt include decking the block. another reason why i put it in was the b20 css with small turbos were still cracking sleeves at 400-500hp the 700hp ones were not. since i used a really small turbo i wanted to protect the sleeves as much as possible. the dyno dont really show that it is making 12psi at 3k rpm, the tiny turbo i used is hard on parts.
That's great to hear. I've been considering having it done since my tuner mentioned it and now hearing from someone with firsthand experience with them I'm sold. I have another F block just sitting in the garage and I think once the money is right I'm going to contact them and ship it out. On the other hand I'm also considering the possibility of playing around with the K-series a bit. Ppl say that it's an expensive swap to do on the CD chassis, but if you have the resources to fabricate a majority of the parts needed to do the swap; well, then the cost drops pretty dramatically. Just something I've been considering... But I think the CNC Werx block guard takes the F-series into a different realm of power handling capabilities altogether. I think with the addition of their unit we should be able to push the F into power ranges comparable to the H's and K's...? The F's issues were the ringlands and the open deck, right? I mean if you can give the sleeves enough support to hold the power what's stopping the F-series from seeing 6-700hp? Idk? Thank you for the reply though Vega
That's great to hear. I've been considering having it done since my tuner mentioned it and now hearing from someone with firsthand experience with them I'm sold. I have another F block just sitting in the garage and I think once the money is right I'm going to contact them and ship it out. On the other hand I'm also considering the possibility of playing around with the K-series a bit. Ppl say that it's an expensive swap to do on the CD chassis, but if you have the resources to fabricate a majority of the parts needed to do the swap; well, then the cost drops pretty dramatically. Just something I've been considering... But I think the CNC Werx block guard takes the F-series into a different realm of power handling capabilities altogether. I think with the addition of their unit we should be able to push the F into power ranges comparable to the H's and K's...? The F's issues were the ringlands and the open deck, right? I mean if you can give the sleeves enough support to hold the power what's stopping the F-series from seeing 6-700hp? Idk? Thank you for the reply though Vega
ive actually never seen problems with the sleeves at all even without the css, I would also contact Jeff through call or email. Last I heard they had blocks ready to to shipped to you for around 500 bucks so you wouldn't have to ship them your block at all.
Yes ring lands faults are the power problem with the f22a, but I've never seen a person properly re Gap the rings when they boost their f22 so that's something to think about also. There are a few just over 600hp f22a out there on you tube.
That's great to hear. I've been considering having it done since my tuner mentioned it and now hearing from someone with firsthand experience with them I'm sold. I have another F block just sitting in the garage and I think once the money is right I'm going to contact them and ship it out. On the other hand I'm also considering the possibility of playing around with the K-series a bit. Ppl say that it's an expensive swap to do on the CD chassis, but if you have the resources to fabricate a majority of the parts needed to do the swap; well, then the cost drops pretty dramatically. Just something I've been considering... But I think the CNC Werx block guard takes the F-series into a different realm of power handling capabilities altogether. I think with the addition of their unit we should be able to push the F into power ranges comparable to the H's and K's...? The F's issues were the ringlands and the open deck, right? I mean if you can give the sleeves enough support to hold the power what's stopping the F-series from seeing 6-700hp? Idk? Thank you for the reply though Vega
theres a couple of f22s out there making over 600whp people just dont like these motors because they are single cams without the good vtec and they didnt rev high from the factory so even as popular as they are it isnt a b or h series.
ive actually never seen problems with the sleeves at all even without the css, I would also contact Jeff through call or email. Last I heard they had blocks ready to to shipped to you for around 500 bucks so you wouldn't have to ship them your block at all.
Yes ring lands faults are the power problem with the f22a, but I've never seen a person properly re Gap the rings when they boost their f22 so that's something to think about also. There are a few just over 600hp f22a out there on you tube.
That's a really good point....I'd never even considered. And I had no idea folks were making that kind of power (600hp+) on stock sleeves?... I gotta check that out, because I surely would've let my tuner turn up the boost if I'd known that! Sheesh!.. I always thought we were limited to 3-400hp on the stock sleeves? Especially if they'd been overbored like mine?
So.... here are the results of the new manifold + open dump setup with dyno sheets:
The thin red line is the old curve with the log manifold at the same boost pressure. And here the thin Gr+Bl lines signify the old curve... nearly 60hp difference! And spool-up is practically identical.
These graphs were taken @16psi... @18psi I'm running out of fuel. But not due to my injector size, instead it appears to be the pump. I made the mistake of using the OEM wiring while installing my Walbro so I'll be rewiring it soon and seeing just how far we can push it!?...Soon!
BIG Thanks to Boosted94gsr, without your help this might not have happened.
Walbro 255s can do a lot more than that on stock wiring. I would re-think your thinking unless you believe you have voltage droop issues under load which would be caused by something else entirely. What size are your injectors? Using a relay for the fuel pump is not a bad idea but from my personal experience it's definitely not needed. I have seen many 400-500whp+ setups using them with the stock wiring.
dyno of mine. Stock dsm manifold and 16g turbo at 17psi full 3 inch exhaust with vibrant muffler on a 90deg day. I am using the stock wireing
Also there is a connector at the pass side front kick panel that has the fuel pump wires in it. I later had to bypass this connector because it melted. Im using an aem320 though
02-13-2017, 01:06 PM
re: ***Official F22B Turbo Thread***
