No air flow to radiator..... Need help!!!!!
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Re: No air flow to radiator..... Need help!!!!!
I love being able to read deleted comments lol.
Get a proper fan, maybe a shroud, level the radiator, and go from there.
Get a proper fan, maybe a shroud, level the radiator, and go from there.
#27
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Thread Starter
Re: No air flow to radiator..... Need help!!!!!
I wonder why they don't make a 13" shroud does it take up that much of the radiator. Can I adapt the 12" shroud the the 13" fan?
#28
Honda-Tech Member
Re: No air flow to radiator..... Need help!!!!!
Just use the 13" fan and secure directly too the radiator. A shroud wont help much as the fan covers most of the surface area. I did mine with straight zip ties fine, no issues many years that way.
I havent seen it posted, but also make sure you run a seperate power source for the van via a relay. The amp draw is 20-30amps with that fan and will not perform well through the stock wiring.
I havent seen it posted, but also make sure you run a seperate power source for the van via a relay. The amp draw is 20-30amps with that fan and will not perform well through the stock wiring.
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No air flow to radiator..... Need help!!!!!
Originally Posted by LightningTeg
Just use the 13" fan and secure directly too the radiator. A shroud wont help much as the fan covers most of the surface area. I did mine with straight zip ties fine, no issues many years that way.
I havent seen it posted, but also make sure you run a seperate power source for the van via a relay. The amp draw is 20-30amps with that fan and will not perform well through the stock wiring.
I havent seen it posted, but also make sure you run a seperate power source for the van via a relay. The amp draw is 20-30amps with that fan and will not perform well through the stock wiring.
Thats what i was trying to show him with my pics
#30
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Re: No air flow to radiator..... Need help!!!!!
Just use the 13" fan and secure directly too the radiator. A shroud wont help much as the fan covers most of the surface area. I did mine with straight zip ties fine, no issues many years that way.
I havent seen it posted, but also make sure you run a seperate power source for the van via a relay. The amp draw is 20-30amps with that fan and will not perform well through the stock wiring.
I havent seen it posted, but also make sure you run a seperate power source for the van via a relay. The amp draw is 20-30amps with that fan and will not perform well through the stock wiring.
Either way, the voltage is needed because the fans are that powerful
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No air flow to radiator..... Need help!!!!!
Dont just add a 40 amp fuse to your stock wiring.
Thats a good way to burn your car down.
Use the 12v trigger from the stock wiring to a relay and a new cable from batt to the fan with a 40amp inline with that.
I can post a schematic later if you need it
Thats a good way to burn your car down.
Use the 12v trigger from the stock wiring to a relay and a new cable from batt to the fan with a 40amp inline with that.
I can post a schematic later if you need it
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Re: No air flow to radiator..... Need help!!!!!
I've seen plenty of people using a 40amp fuse with stock wiring with no issues. You have to remember that it's an OEM high current circuit and the OEM fan wiring is a decent gauge for most single high flow fans. Now the guys running big dual fans or one super serious fan need a new 60amp relay and new larger gauge wiring.
#33
Swaggylicious
Re: No air flow to radiator..... Need help!!!!!
OP
just getting a SPAL fan to your stock radiator will only be a band aid fix. If financially possible, I would get an aftermarket larger radiator.
I bought a used Fluidyne for $100 and with the 13" SPAL I dont have any overheat issues
just getting a SPAL fan to your stock radiator will only be a band aid fix. If financially possible, I would get an aftermarket larger radiator.
I bought a used Fluidyne for $100 and with the 13" SPAL I dont have any overheat issues
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No air flow to radiator..... Need help!!!!!
Originally Posted by wantboost
I've seen plenty of people using a 40amp fuse with stock wiring with no issues. You have to remember that it's an OEM high current circuit and the OEM fan wiring is a decent gauge for most single high flow fans. Now the guys running big dual fans or one super serious fan need a new 60amp relay and new larger gauge wiring.
http://www.amplepower.com/primer/gauge/
Look at that chart there
ohms law mang
#35
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Thread Starter
Re: No air flow to radiator..... Need help!!!!!
I'm going to install the new dual core radiator I have sitting in the garage along with all the other parts.
Last edited by bigodub93; 09-16-2015 at 07:01 AM.
#36
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Re: No air flow to radiator..... Need help!!!!!
Just wanted to give a update. I am still waiting on my damn parts. The car has been sitting in the garage for the last week. I ordered a 13" spal fan and the spal fan relay. And password jdm hood spacers from Amazon and it is taking extra long for them to show up. As soon as I get them I I'll let you know the results.
#37
Honda-Tech Member
Re: No air flow to radiator..... Need help!!!!!
Could go to lowes and gotten some nylon spacers for about 1/5th the cost. But the PJDM actually cheaper than I thought.
#40
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Re: No air flow to radiator..... Need help!!!!!
Lol only have the quick release bumper washers because the previous owner ripped both sides off the bumper off. so this is the only way to keep bumper on without looking extra ghetto
#41
Honda-Tech Member
Re: No air flow to radiator..... Need help!!!!!
OP: Do you have the lower splash shield on the car? If you do not, air could be coming behind the radiator and pressurizing the engine bay. If the stock shield does not fit try to fab something up (keeping flammable materials away from the downpipe obviously).
It doesn't look like the air from the grille opening is ducted to the heat exchangers either? Air will take the path of least resistance so if you don't have the air ducted it will go around the radiator instead of through it.
Agree with the previous comments regarding removing air bubbles and making sure the cooling system is operating properly as a first step. You can throw all kinds of parts at it but it is critical to get the fundamentals correct first.
Is there any data to prove this?
Only can speak generally because I haven't tested it on a Honda but most cars have a high pressure zone at the base of the windshield at speed which means air would be flowing into the engine bay with hood spacers creating a higher pressure. You want a pressure differential across the heat exchanger to draw air through it which means you want a low pressure zone in the engine bay.
If you look at the majority of OEM/race cars they have extraction vents placed between the front and middle of the hood because the air flow around the car creates a low pressure zone in that area. Air flows from high pressure (bumper opening) to low pressure (hood vent) and makes the radiator work more efficiently.
Reference:
Hood spacers DO generally reduce underhood heat when the car is stationary but the OP said his issue is when the car is moving. In theory a hood spacer would make that issue worse.
Re: Fans - Fans don't do anything when the car is moving at more than walking speed. At 60 mph your car is moving 5280 feet per minute. If the grille opening is 1 square foot (simplifying math, not sure on the area of a Civic but it is likely over 1 sq ft), the grille opening is consuming 5280 CFM. Do you think a fan that moves 1600 CFM is doing anything at that point? It's like pedaling a bike in 1st gear while bombing a hill.
It doesn't look like the air from the grille opening is ducted to the heat exchangers either? Air will take the path of least resistance so if you don't have the air ducted it will go around the radiator instead of through it.
Agree with the previous comments regarding removing air bubbles and making sure the cooling system is operating properly as a first step. You can throw all kinds of parts at it but it is critical to get the fundamentals correct first.
Only can speak generally because I haven't tested it on a Honda but most cars have a high pressure zone at the base of the windshield at speed which means air would be flowing into the engine bay with hood spacers creating a higher pressure. You want a pressure differential across the heat exchanger to draw air through it which means you want a low pressure zone in the engine bay.
If you look at the majority of OEM/race cars they have extraction vents placed between the front and middle of the hood because the air flow around the car creates a low pressure zone in that area. Air flows from high pressure (bumper opening) to low pressure (hood vent) and makes the radiator work more efficiently.
Reference:
Hood spacers DO generally reduce underhood heat when the car is stationary but the OP said his issue is when the car is moving. In theory a hood spacer would make that issue worse.
Re: Fans - Fans don't do anything when the car is moving at more than walking speed. At 60 mph your car is moving 5280 feet per minute. If the grille opening is 1 square foot (simplifying math, not sure on the area of a Civic but it is likely over 1 sq ft), the grille opening is consuming 5280 CFM. Do you think a fan that moves 1600 CFM is doing anything at that point? It's like pedaling a bike in 1st gear while bombing a hill.
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Originally Posted by njn63
OP: Do you have the lower splash shield on the car? If you do not, air could be coming behind the radiator and pressurizing the engine bay. If the stock shield does not fit try to fab something up (keeping flammable materials away from the downpipe obviously).
It doesn't look like the air from the grille opening is ducted to the heat exchangers either? Air will take the path of least resistance so if you don't have the air ducted it will go around the radiator instead of through it.
Agree with the previous comments regarding removing air bubbles and making sure the cooling system is operating properly as a first step. You can throw all kinds of parts at it but it is critical to get the fundamentals correct first.Is there any data to prove this?
Only can speak generally because I haven't tested it on a Honda but most cars have a high pressure zone at the base of the windshield at speed which means air would be flowing into the engine bay with hood spacers creating a higher pressure. You want a pressure differential across the heat exchanger to draw air through it which means you want a low pressure zone in the engine bay.
If you look at the majority of OEM/race cars they have extraction vents placed between the front and middle of the hood because the air flow around the car creates a low pressure zone in that area. Air flows from high pressure (bumper opening) to low pressure (hood vent) and makes the radiator work more efficiently.
Reference:
Hood spacers DO generally reduce underhood heat when the car is stationary but the OP said his issue is when the car is moving. In theory a hood spacer would make that issue worse.
Re: Fans - Fans don't do anything when the car is moving at more than walking speed. At 60 mph your car is moving 5280 feet per minute. If the grille opening is 1 square foot (simplifying math, not sure on the area of a Civic but it is likely over 1 sq ft), the grille opening is consuming 5280 CFM. Do you think a fan that moves 1600 CFM is doing anything at that point? It's like pedaling a bike in 1st gear while bombing a hill.
It doesn't look like the air from the grille opening is ducted to the heat exchangers either? Air will take the path of least resistance so if you don't have the air ducted it will go around the radiator instead of through it.
Agree with the previous comments regarding removing air bubbles and making sure the cooling system is operating properly as a first step. You can throw all kinds of parts at it but it is critical to get the fundamentals correct first.Is there any data to prove this?
Only can speak generally because I haven't tested it on a Honda but most cars have a high pressure zone at the base of the windshield at speed which means air would be flowing into the engine bay with hood spacers creating a higher pressure. You want a pressure differential across the heat exchanger to draw air through it which means you want a low pressure zone in the engine bay.
If you look at the majority of OEM/race cars they have extraction vents placed between the front and middle of the hood because the air flow around the car creates a low pressure zone in that area. Air flows from high pressure (bumper opening) to low pressure (hood vent) and makes the radiator work more efficiently.
Reference:
Hood spacers DO generally reduce underhood heat when the car is stationary but the OP said his issue is when the car is moving. In theory a hood spacer would make that issue worse.
Re: Fans - Fans don't do anything when the car is moving at more than walking speed. At 60 mph your car is moving 5280 feet per minute. If the grille opening is 1 square foot (simplifying math, not sure on the area of a Civic but it is likely over 1 sq ft), the grille opening is consuming 5280 CFM. Do you think a fan that moves 1600 CFM is doing anything at that point? It's like pedaling a bike in 1st gear while bombing a hill.
We usually have a intercooler blocking our radiators.
The radiator doesnt get good airflow
I keep my fan on until 50mph because of this.
Thats actual data logged findings
#43
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: No air flow to radiator..... Need help!!!!!
OP: Do you have the lower splash shield on the car? If you do not, air could be coming behind the radiator and pressurizing the engine bay. If the stock shield does not fit try to fab something up (keeping flammable materials away from the downpipe obviously).
It doesn't look like the air from the grille opening is ducted to the heat exchangers either? Air will take the path of least resistance so if you don't have the air ducted it will go around the radiator instead of through it.
Agree with the previous comments regarding removing air bubbles and making sure the cooling system is operating properly as a first step. You can throw all kinds of parts at it but it is critical to get the fundamentals correct first.
Is there any data to prove this?
Only can speak generally because I haven't tested it on a Honda but most cars have a high pressure zone at the base of the windshield at speed which means air would be flowing into the engine bay with hood spacers creating a higher pressure. You want a pressure differential across the heat exchanger to draw air through it which means you want a low pressure zone in the engine bay.
If you look at the majority of OEM/race cars they have extraction vents placed between the front and middle of the hood because the air flow around the car creates a low pressure zone in that area. Air flows from high pressure (bumper opening) to low pressure (hood vent) and makes the radiator work more efficiently.
Reference:
Hood spacers DO generally reduce underhood heat when the car is stationary but the OP said his issue is when the car is moving. In theory a hood spacer would make that issue worse.
Re: Fans - Fans don't do anything when the car is moving at more than walking speed. At 60 mph your car is moving 5280 feet per minute. If the grille opening is 1 square foot (simplifying math, not sure on the area of a Civic but it is likely over 1 sq ft), the grille opening is consuming 5280 CFM. Do you think a fan that moves 1600 CFM is doing anything at that point? It's like pedaling a bike in 1st gear while bombing a hill.
It doesn't look like the air from the grille opening is ducted to the heat exchangers either? Air will take the path of least resistance so if you don't have the air ducted it will go around the radiator instead of through it.
Agree with the previous comments regarding removing air bubbles and making sure the cooling system is operating properly as a first step. You can throw all kinds of parts at it but it is critical to get the fundamentals correct first.
Is there any data to prove this?
Only can speak generally because I haven't tested it on a Honda but most cars have a high pressure zone at the base of the windshield at speed which means air would be flowing into the engine bay with hood spacers creating a higher pressure. You want a pressure differential across the heat exchanger to draw air through it which means you want a low pressure zone in the engine bay.
If you look at the majority of OEM/race cars they have extraction vents placed between the front and middle of the hood because the air flow around the car creates a low pressure zone in that area. Air flows from high pressure (bumper opening) to low pressure (hood vent) and makes the radiator work more efficiently.
Reference:
Hood spacers DO generally reduce underhood heat when the car is stationary but the OP said his issue is when the car is moving. In theory a hood spacer would make that issue worse.
Re: Fans - Fans don't do anything when the car is moving at more than walking speed. At 60 mph your car is moving 5280 feet per minute. If the grille opening is 1 square foot (simplifying math, not sure on the area of a Civic but it is likely over 1 sq ft), the grille opening is consuming 5280 CFM. Do you think a fan that moves 1600 CFM is doing anything at that point? It's like pedaling a bike in 1st gear while bombing a hill.
Wow lots of good info and theory. When you talk about ducting I get lost because I personally don't think there is any room for me to put ducting in. When I think of ducting in the first place I see dryer vent tubing in my head. Is that the right idea. Once my bumper is on there is little room to run anything to the radiator.
#44
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Thread Starter
Re: No air flow to radiator..... Need help!!!!!
Now during normal operation does the fan cut off at a certain mph or mph? or does it stay on until the temp goes down.
#45
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Stock ems turns it off after 35mph if you have s300 or whatver else you can change that
Ducting means in the case making a pan to go underneath ur front bumper to the back of the radiator just like the stock bumper had
Also if you dont have the ac condenser anymore block that area too. You want to force air into your radiator.
If you have air going under your radiator into the bay it becomes full of pressure and makes it harder for air to naturally flow through the radiator
Ducting means in the case making a pan to go underneath ur front bumper to the back of the radiator just like the stock bumper had
Also if you dont have the ac condenser anymore block that area too. You want to force air into your radiator.
If you have air going under your radiator into the bay it becomes full of pressure and makes it harder for air to naturally flow through the radiator
#46
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: No air flow to radiator..... Need help!!!!!
Stock ems turns it off after 35mph if you have s300 or whatver else you can change that
Ducting means in the case making a pan to go underneath ur front bumper to the back of the radiator just like the stock bumper had
Also if you dont have the ac condenser anymore block that area too. You want to force air into your radiator.
If you have air going under your radiator into the bay it becomes full of pressure and makes it harder for air to naturally flow through the radiator
Ducting means in the case making a pan to go underneath ur front bumper to the back of the radiator just like the stock bumper had
Also if you dont have the ac condenser anymore block that area too. You want to force air into your radiator.
If you have air going under your radiator into the bay it becomes full of pressure and makes it harder for air to naturally flow through the radiator
#47
Honda-Tech Member
Re: No air flow to radiator..... Need help!!!!!
I've spent the last week off in the weeds trying to figure out how small I can go on a radiator for my car while still running 20+ minute sessions so I have some N/A bias in the back of my head.
Wow lots of good info and theory. When you talk about ducting I get lost because I personally don't think there is any room for me to put ducting in. When I think of ducting in the first place I see dryer vent tubing in my head. Is that the right idea. Once my bumper is on there is little room to run anything to the radiator.
It doesn't have to be that smooth as long as it is sealed fairly well to create a high pressure box.
A lot of the track turbo Miata guys would build the ducting larger than the intercooler and allow some air to bypass it. That would obviously depend on IATs because you're reducing the efficiency of the intercooler... gotta figure out that balance.
#48
Honda-Tech Member
Re: No air flow to radiator..... Need help!!!!!
Good stuff.
I have the same issue on the highway my temps creep and the fan keeps them in check. I need to try all of the things you just mentioned
I have the same issue on the highway my temps creep and the fan keeps them in check. I need to try all of the things you just mentioned
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Re: No air flow to radiator..... Need help!!!!!
Yes there's data. I believe it was Import Tuner who did a big test using a miata I think.
They had thermocouples at key places in the engine bay in addition to pressure sensors and logging coolant temps.
With the hood properly spaced they saw a large drop in heat around all areas except for one place low in the center of the firewall (read: less heat soak). Coolant temps also dropped a bit and the pressure sensors showed far less pressurization within the engine bay. You have to remember that the area behind the hood at the base of the windshield on most vehicles is a low pressure area. Spacing the back of the hood causes the rear of the hood to extend this low pressure area. The high pressure air then takes the path of least resistance through the gap in the hood. This also reduces the amount of air exiting under the car which theoretically has some aerodynamic advantage.
They had thermocouples at key places in the engine bay in addition to pressure sensors and logging coolant temps.
With the hood properly spaced they saw a large drop in heat around all areas except for one place low in the center of the firewall (read: less heat soak). Coolant temps also dropped a bit and the pressure sensors showed far less pressurization within the engine bay. You have to remember that the area behind the hood at the base of the windshield on most vehicles is a low pressure area. Spacing the back of the hood causes the rear of the hood to extend this low pressure area. The high pressure air then takes the path of least resistance through the gap in the hood. This also reduces the amount of air exiting under the car which theoretically has some aerodynamic advantage.