ryanstev

I had a friendly disagreement with a mechanic today, over the movie "The Fast And The Furious"
I said that during that race where the girl goes "See ya" and hits the NO2, that there is no way that she would take off like she did when they were already going so fast.

The mechanic (Scott) said that NO2 adds a couple hundred horsepower, and would make her take off like that.
I said her car was probably running an 80 shot, and only a V8 could handle 200hp or more, etc, etc.

It was at this point my other friend's girlfriend said "Well Scotts a mechanic I'm sure he would know more than you" (in the nya nya nya na naaa type tone which REALLY pissed me off) and there wasn't much I could say about it.

Who was right, me or him?

I also said hitting NO2 at redline would blow the engine, and Scott said the engine would just bump up against the limiter, no big deal.


While I'm posting, I may as well mention some of the other things he said.

He said V6's can't be souped up as much as I4's.
He used the example of the Celica engine in a Supra, and I said that was just to get around weight restrictions, which he agreed on.

He said the Charger doing a wheel stand while spinning the wheels could happen, and I said you wheel stand from having too much traction, you spin the wheels by not having enough, you can't do both.
He then said the wheelie bars meant you could do that.

Basically I lost the "friendly disagreement" because I'm not a mechanic, I never thought to say that I'm repeating everything I learned from being on this site, from people who ARE mechanics, and people who have done things to their cars that Scott hasn't.

DIRep972

iTrader: (1)

u shoulda hit that guy in the face... and NEVER let him touch your baby..

if u think about it theres no possible way a car could pass another car that fast just with NOS.. if u r racing someone and they are two cars ahead and pulling on u they are going i dunno lets say 8mph faster.. (these are just guesses btw) but in order for u to gain on them and then pass them like that u have to be going faster then them, say 12mph faster... so for u to be loosing by 8mph and needing to gain a total of 20mph to pass someone u would probably need an extra 150-200hp at the push of a button..

and about the wheel stand, what if u made so much traction to pop the wheels from all the low end torque but then when the boost kicks in from your big fatty T199+ turbo u break the wheels loose.. heh it could happen ... I dunno u r write about that one, u cant brun out and pop a wheelie at the same time..

X2BOARD

Hmmm.... NO2..... the juice is loose..... ever had a bicycle pass you doing about 15 mph while you are standing still ? It looks like they are flying past you...... if you are going 50 and someone passes you at 60, I would estimate a 100 shotty of NO2 will get you smoking past them at about 15-20 mph faster, but it won't happen instantaneously.... it'll take about 2-3 secs to get up to speed, even with NO2..... but remember, a shot of 100 NOS in a car with turbo and intercooler will theoretically gain you more than 100hp.

And yes, you can break traction and do a wheelie in a RWD if you have enuff power and sticky rubber... it takes a delicate touch...but it can be done...

Big James

NO2 will not do **** for your car. N2O will though.

You can leave someone like that by squeezing. Of course it might have been a little overdramatized. Why do I say you can leave someone like that? Because I have done it. When racing on the freeway, I have been neck and neck with people and the hit the button. 75 extra horses will move you a little faster. Plus if you spray into a turbo car, you are not only adding hp from the nitrous, you are super-cooling you boosted intake charge. This will give you a very nice advantage.

As far as running a 150-200 shot on a 4 or 6 cylinder, yes you can. My friend has a built Avenger that runs high boost and a 150 shot of nitrous. I know a guy with a direct port of 150 on his Integra. If built right, a 4 cylinder can handle a nice size shot of nitrous.

Now onto squeezing at redline. I never saw where they did this. I did see them squeeze up until redline, this is safe. If you have a rev limiter, it will kick in and you are ok. I have done it. Accidentally of course.

The whole burnout while lifting the front wheels of the ground is a little hard to beleive, I have never seen it done, and theoretically it can not be don. however, that does not mean it is impossible.

bigTom

u can also set nitrous up so that when u reach a pre-designated rpm the nitrous will shut off untill the next gear... basically saying if u have a redline of 8000... u can set it at 7800... so u wont be spraying when u hit redline

TypeC

about the Nitrous, YES you'd jump ahead like that with a big enough shot. Case and point, when I first installed my nitrous. I was racing my friend's GSR, for the sake of argument, is just as fast as my car. (Note during the first install, I somehow removed the nitrous jet, so I was running wide OPEN ~150-200 shot). Well we were pretty much dead even, but as soon as I hit the juice, I LAUNCHED ahead by about 2 cars almos instantly!!! It was great. Too bad my motor didn't like that big of shot too much (dealer fixed it, and I fixed the install).

yeah, about the rpm thing, I'm using the MSD to back it off at 8K:



[Modified by TypeC, 9:05 AM 8/22/2001]

ryanstev

Thanks for the replies.
I can't say I'm happy to hear that I was wrong about a car taking off like that, when they were already going so fast, I just won't mention it.

I did find a link of some interest though, the page where Mopar Action put a 150shot on a stock Neon, it has some Do's and Don'ts at the end of the article, and explains why hitting the rev limiter with N20 is a bad thing.

I don't think I have to try to prove Scott was wrong about I4's having the ability to be souped up more than V6's...

falcongsr

to lose traction when doing a wheelie, you have to have a wheelie bar. the front of the car comes up so fast that alot of weight actually shifts to the wheelie bar itself. the rear car tires are actually coming up off the ground...thats why they spin

the car in the fast and the furious had a speciall apparatus under it to get it to lift perfectly every time. you can actually see it in slow motion (when it comes out on DVD)

the apparatus was an extra set of wheels in FRONT of the rear wheels to push the car up.

Joe

SIK IN DA HED

whut a dumbass... and he calls himself a mechanic? well... as long as he doesnt write a book about it.

ryanstev

Well, I showed my friend the page where it says not to hit your rev limiter with N20, as the fuel shuts off, and the N20 will gather in your exhaust system, he didn't believe it.
I explained that Mopar Action is a respected magazine in America that test these sorts of things (no idea if that's true or not) he didn't believe it.

I also showed him this thread, and asked who was more likely to know what they were talking about, Scott (a mechanic in a town of around 10,000, no performance shops, or anything of the kind) or you guys, the guys who actually mod their cars.

He decided Scott knew best.

He's basically a moron.

Luckily another friend who is a mechanic came in, and tried to set him right, except he wouldn't believe him either.
I give up.

ryanstev

I didn't see Scott today, my friend said he'd show him the webpage by Mopar Action, and see what he thinks.

H23 Power

do you care that much about what other people think? and who they think is right or wrong?

When people tell me **** i KNOW is wrong, i might make a lousy attempt to tell them they are wrong, but you will know if they are not going to believe you, so I just leave it alone and let them believe what they want. Let him blow his engine up, then he will believe you

lucas569

unless you have a huge shot of juice the car will not pull forward like that. nitrous is felt most at lower rpms,thats why its so good for short races such as the 1/4 mile. you actually burn less nitrous as the rpms increase.so as the car goes higher in rpms the nitrous has less effect.

riot

First off, F&F ruined the whole nitrous thing...they blew it out to be so much more than it really is. First off, what the hell is with people waiting till 4-5 gear to spray...STUPID?!?!?!?!? You should spray 2-3-4 where it counts the most...

And this mechanic is a ******* moron...yeah no big deal with bouncing off the limiter...lol...HELLO?!?!?!? When you are spraying n2o into your motor and the fuel CUTS...NO FUEL AND ALL N2O = LEAN = DETONATION = INSTANT BLOWN MOTOR!!!!

I hate ******* mechanics that THINK they know what they are talking about but in reality dont have a ******* clue what the **** is comming out of their cake hole. Just because someone is a "mechanic" doesn't mean he knows everything about N2O or turbos or blowers...****, the ****** prolly does brake jobs for a living...

He is full of ****.

-ryan

Finest

Seriously, it CAN be done if the motor's built and there's a big enough shot of nitrous. BUT, with a turbo, 4 banger, how much are they really spraying? Not much probably. Movies have a tendency to OVER-exagerate things...especially this NOS thing. So don't believe everything you see on the screen. *Actually, don't believe MOST things you saw in F&F*

And about the Charger lifting. It looks like it could have enough HP to get a launch like that. But for the smoke, it could just be bleach. *Special Effects* And if you spray enough VHT on the streets, it can hook enough to get a good launch like that. Just a thought... I'll have to check on that "lifting" system someone mentioned up there in the DVD though...

GSRwBOOST

N20 doesn't pool in your exhaust... it will, from the heat it will still break apart into seperate parts... the o2 will burn but with no fuel, it will burn very hot, melting the pistons and valves... and this happens very quickly...

I hit the rev limiter when I had nitrous on my car, but i always let up before I shift to ensure that the flow of nitrous is stopped and go back down after i'm sure i'm in gear...

samagon

tell the mechanic that he needs to invest in some basics of physics books, it is impossible even for a 200shot to make a 2000lb car, instantaniously go 15 mph faster. what is the equasion I am looking for E=MV^2 or some iteration of that equasion?

ask this so called mechanic if he smokes crack or if he just likes to act like it.

there is no replacement for displacement <period> a V6 will have a larger displacement than an I4.

you know, I did believe you very unwillingly, up until this point. either you are trolling, or your mechanic is a certified idiot.

tell scott that I said that he is an idiot. do yourself a favor and never let that guy even do an oil change on your car.

TypeC

HAHAHHA, I thought I was the only one that noticed that!!! Like in the Desert Race with the S2000, when the Asian guy said "Too Soon," and Sprayed like in 5th gear!. That's stupid. If I was racing for money/slips, I'd be sraying in EVERY gear.
I still love the movie though.




[Modified by TypeC, 12:18 PM 8/24/2001]

H23 Power

that was one of the movie's downfalls...it was still decent, I just think they should have been more careful about doing things the way the are done...

X2BOARD

I don't see the down fall of the Nitrous thing in FnF.... it's Hollywood, it would be no fun to spray N02 and not go faster like a V2 were strapped to your ***..... Most people have no idea what NO2 does and the movie gave them something to oooooh and aaaahhhh about..... The best thing that you could look forward to is every rice boy buying a bottle and forcing the price of em to go down (hah)

The standing wheelie....it could happen.... it won't look like it did in FnF and the tires won't smoke like that W/O wheelie bars... but once again... Hollywood...


oh.... and sorry about the NO2 thing.... I like to type that because it looks like NOS and that is what most people are used to seeing, but NOS is a company, not he molecule..... oh well..... I figured I'd combine both, but I didn't know I'd get beat down for it....

Big James

If I may interject. N2O is used pretty heavily by a lot of people in the Atlanta area, myself included. I agree with the statement of using N2O in 2,3,4 gear, however, I do understand using it in higher gears only. When on the track, you want the best time possible. When street racing for money, you do not. Let me explain. If I am racing someone, I only want to go as fast as I need to to beat them. If i go any faster, people will know how fast the car is. That is bad on my part. I want people to go "Hmm, he barely beat that car, i know I can get him." Do you understand what I am saying?

Let's move on to hitting redline and your motor blowing. Honestly, that depends. If you have an ignition cut off, you have no worries about detonation. If you have a fuel cutoff, you should still have no worries as oxygen itself does not burn, and nitrous oxide is a non flammable gas. It needs some sort of fuel to burn. It simply adds as an oxidizer to help your gasoline burn. By itself, nitrous can not burn. Now, you can run into a problem if you end up with a small amount of fuel in the cylinders mixed with the nitrous. Also, this could depends on the kit that you have. A wet kit, will continue to spray fuel even at fuel cutoff. depending on your jetting, this could cause a problem. What I am saying, is it is not black and white if you will blow your motor at redline.

honda011

my friend was running a 200 shot in his civic, so not only v8's can handle 200shot

cubish

im spraying a 300 shot on mine... and 1700anddropping is spraying around a 400 on his.

maybe you havent been in a fast nitrous car before...but no matter how fast of a roll im at.. when i hit that first stage of 200 the car jets off like it were pulling off from a dead stop. yes it wouldnt do it on a 80 shot..but most certainly on a good amount of spray. nitrous hits a lot harder than boost. as soon as its activated all of the power is there.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1402083

Kyle R

iTrader: (1)

Big James, be careful. Oxygen gas (O2) is HIGHLY flammable. Put pure O2 next to a glowing amber and it will re-ignite. I see what you are tring to say, but keep in mind, most of what is in your engine is nitrogen; very little oxygen is in there. (What you are breathing right now is mostly nitrogen with very little ~18% oxygen).

Kyle R

nfn15037

This thread is retarded.....