Nine3Sol's LS Turbo build needs assistance

 
Old 02-11-2019, 09:47 AM
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Default Nine3Sol's LS Turbo build needs assistance

I have put together a turbo kit for my B18b1 (OBd2) and was debating adding the LS/vtec swap, until I saw this.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-...power-2587855/
I know adding any sort of power modifications to a stock honda engine will always raise some risk of harm to the engine. I want to do everything right I possibly can to make the engine last.
Its my only vehicle so its important that I can get in and go everyday. Current goal is 300 hp with capabilities to go higher in the future the highest being 400 while using as much of the OEM/stock internals as possible with a road racing/street car fun in mind.
My choice of turbo is "small" for some but what I wanted was mid low end power and fast response, hence my choice of the GT28RS.
I plan on doing some engine rebuilding but nothing to heavy like sleeving the block and oversize bore. Main questions of the thread. 1.LS/turbo vs LS/VTEC Turbo?
2. Is the LS/VTEC Turbo really as unreliable as people claimed in above mentioned thread. 3. To what extent should I build the LS bottom end With FI and possibly LS/vtec in mind.


My current parts acquired

Turbo kit

GT2860RS .63 T3 exhaust housing
Blackworks Racing top mount
Tial 44mm Wastegate
Aem Fuel Rail
RC 750cc Injectors
HKS SSQV BOV
Vibrant 12800 FMIC
AEM UEGO Wideband
Blackworks racing 3 inch DP
Ktuned 4 bar MAP Sensor

Ive got the list of the rest of the parts needed for the turbo kit and am slowly collecting them all the intercooler piping is going to be custom made from the shop. Once i have bought all the turbo kit parts I want to do a built bottom end Forged rods and pistons etc. before just slapping it all on and blowing **** up.
Many people will say "OH BUT WHY BUILD THE BOTTOM END SUCH WASTE OF MONEY??!!" or "MY buddy has stock d16 and boosts 2000000099394 PSI and its fine!" or "Stock LS engines have made XXXhp so many times and heres a video"
I want to add as much insurance and security as possible while maintaining as much OEM parts as possible. My thought process is that if I hone (not bore) the cylinders and do forged rods/pistons with new OEM piston rings new bearings and rod bolts,
that the build will last me much longer and give me that piece of mind im looking for. Im asking the great internet people of HT if they think this is enough. Or if i need more. I have no Idea if my outline for a parts list is any good so opinions and corrections are appreciated,
however I am pretty set on the CP piston eagle rod combo, from seeing other peoples cars running them and the amount of people who say thats the #1. Also the debate of the block guard, do they do more harm or good because I can never find a thread with the straight answer, if you could point me in the right direction that would be greatly appreciated.

Bottom end B18b1 LS Anything im missing???

CP pistons 9:0:1? I understand for FI you want compression lower but would the be a benefit to bumping it up a little for quicker responsiveness?
Eagle H beam Rods
ACL,King,OEM Rod Bearings?
ARP Headstuds
ARP Rodbolts
OEM Piston rings

Thank you for your time and reading all help/gripes/complaints are welcome and very appreciated.
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Old 02-11-2019, 10:13 AM
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Default re: Nine3Sol's LS Turbo build needs assistance

First, you are making a mistake by building your only vehicle. Once it's turbo you WILL HAVE down time, you will break things, stuff will happen and it will decide not to run right some days. It's just part of the game.

Second, that LSV thread you looked up is 10 years old. LS Vtec is a proven combination that will work fine if done correctly, and will make your goal easier to reach. You can put 300whp on a completely stock LSV without issues, but I won't discourage you from building the bottom end for added longevity.
- Keep it at 10:1 compression. Lower compression for boost again is a mentality from 10+ years ago. Use good fuel, good tuning software and a good tuner and you'll be all set. Wiseco and CP are proven.
- OEM bearings
- You don't need a block guard. Many of them do more harm than good, unless you are looking at CSS, in which case your engine would be safe up to around 500whp.
- Everything else looks OK. Don't forget your Hondata, fuel pump, and a good clutch.
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Old 02-11-2019, 10:34 AM
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Default re: Nine3Sol's LS Turbo build needs assistance

Thanks a ton for the clarification on the LSV Turbo. The oem clutch went bad about 1000 miles ago and I put in CC stage 4 6 puck put in so it should be good there. I live across the street from my work, i've gone many weeks sometimes months without my car. Worst comes to worse before I got my car shipped up here I was just riding with all my work buddies, we live in the same building so i'm fortunate that if without transportation for a while I can survive.
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Old 02-11-2019, 10:34 AM
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Default re: Nine3Sol's LS Turbo build needs assistance

That built bottom end could be the insurance that your looking for in the form of a daily driving. Just seems like folks love taking the longest way possible to your goal. A piston and rod motor is the gonna be the furthest thing from OEM you could do and really gets more complicated when you mix the goal of it being a truly daily driven street car.

Turbo your LS. Hit 300hp. And after you got everything sorted out, cop a real daily driver and go big with a Vtec and a Piston/Rod setup.
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Old 02-11-2019, 10:40 AM
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Default re: Nine3Sol's LS Turbo build needs assistance

Just for the sake of time and money Id prefer to do the rod and piston LSVtec all in one shot unless I decide im better off just building the bottom end and not adding the Vtec head. Since the head is already coming off to do the bottom end may as well replace oil/water pumps,headstuds etc. and do the Vtec head.
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Old 02-11-2019, 11:19 AM
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Default re: Nine3Sol's LS Turbo build needs assistance

Originally Posted by Nine3Sol View Post
Just for the sake of time and money Id prefer to do the rod and piston LSVtec all in one shot unless I decide im better off just building the bottom end and not adding the Vtec head. Since the head is already coming off to do the bottom end may as well replace oil/water pumps,headstuds etc. and do the Vtec head.
I would agree. Not worth building it non-vtec unless you are purposely doing a non-vtec build, for whatever reason. Do the LSV while you've got it torn apart and call it a day, you'll be much happier with it in the end.

The rod/piston/ARP setup will get you safely in the 400whp neighborhood also if you ever decide to go that far and upgrade your turbo.
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Old 02-11-2019, 11:29 AM
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Default re: Nine3Sol's LS Turbo build needs assistance

Originally Posted by 2x0 View Post
I would agree. Not worth building it non-vtec unless you are purposely doing a non-vtec build, for whatever reason. Do the LSV while you've got it torn apart and call it a day, you'll be much happier with it in the end.

The rod/piston/ARP setup will get you safely in the 400whp neighborhood also if you ever decide to go that far and upgrade your turbo.
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Old 02-11-2019, 04:21 PM
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Default re: Nine3Sol's LS Turbo build needs assistance

The suggestion was to stay LS and buy a beater. But if your going build or bust. 2xO gave some solid advice.
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Old 02-11-2019, 05:01 PM
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Default re: Nine3Sol's LS Turbo build needs assistance

I can't speak to your turbo sizing, but there are others on this forum who can. If this were mine, I would do the VTEC head unless that's going to put you over budget. I had a (stock bottom end) turbo LS and it had lots of torque, but the top end was lacking.

How tired is this engine you're planning on boosting? If it's tired, I'd plan on boring it 0.5 mm. If you don't plan on boring, wait to buy your pistons until after you have the cylinders inspected - you don't want to buy 81 mm pistons only to realize you have out-of-round or scored cylinders and need to bore to 81.5 mm. You're asking for suggestions on the bottom end - I'd suggest pistons, rods, and CSS if you can afford it. Unless you've already got a lot of cash socked away to finish this thing, I'd focus on building the engine first, and then buying the turbo components.

Please understand that your parts list only hits the highlights - it's easy for your wallet to be caught off guard by all the small things that add up. In the first post of my build thread, I'm trying to be as detailed as possible with all the components I'm buying and installing. It's a long-*** list, and it's been expensive. Just make sure you know what you're getting into, financially. It's easy to pull the trigger on that $800 eBay turbo kit and feel like you're close, then you realize all the supporting components you need to buy and modifications you need to do to make it run correctly. I'm a proponent of having a beater vehicle as well. I paid $1,500 (way too much) for my EF Sedan that I daily drive, but I've driven it for 15 years and 225K miles, so it's been worth it.
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Old 02-11-2019, 05:09 PM
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Default re: Nine3Sol's LS Turbo build needs assistance

Am I the only one to notice something seems off about the disco potato coming with a T3 housing? Is this a FrankenTurbo? Every GT28 I've had or had access to was T25 flanged. **shrug**
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Old 02-11-2019, 06:45 PM
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Default re: Nine3Sol's LS Turbo build needs assistance

turbokits.com you can pick from a bunch of different housings. The regular gt28rs t25 is internally wastegated, but on their website they offer externally wastgated t3 options BB too instead of Journal Bearing.
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Old 02-11-2019, 06:52 PM
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Default re: Nine3Sol's LS Turbo build needs assistance

The engine had a compression leak/down test down when the clutch was replaced and it all came in good but ive never seem the cylinder walls so im not sure if they are all that worn. What I can say is the engine still has a lot of pep and pulls just fine, its spins the little 13 inch gen 1 integra steelies all they way through first and part of second. The guys at the shop say its healthy and I trust their word. I get where your coming from on cost for gaskets, tuning various oil/fuel lines etc. Itll all add up i've just bought the main components for the turbo kit so far and wanted to see what people think. I've got some money set aside for the odds and ends.
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:13 PM
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Default re: Nine3Sol's LS Turbo build needs assistance

Take it from me, DO NOT EVER turbocharge your only vehicle. Been there, done that. Luckily for me, I was able to use my dad's extra car when my car was down. If the car is undrivable, how are you going to get around to get parts, to work, etc.? You can bum rides and all but that **** will get old and inconvenient to those who have to come get you.

Buy a cheap beater and then concentrate on your turbo project. Think it through and have a game plan. If not, it will be on FB/Craigslist in a month...half finished.
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:16 PM
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Default re: Nine3Sol's LS Turbo build needs assistance

Originally Posted by Txdragon View Post
Am I the only one to notice something seems off about the disco potato coming with a T3 housing? Is this a FrankenTurbo? Every GT28 I've had or had access to was T25 flanged. **shrug**
A lot of websites offer a variety of housings for the 28RS, including the T3. I've seen it listed in several locations. Go-Autoworks also sells that combination.

OP, the very first piece of advice is the most critical to you - If this is your only car, and it is of crucial importance, do not turbo the car. Don't risk the downtime, because there will inevitably be problems especially on the initial build.

Secondly, I don't know if anyone else has pointed out yet that using a GT28 frame turbo with a top mount manifold is a terrible match. The top mount manifolds are for maximum exhaust volume hitting larger frame turbos and more for straight line/drag racing where the car is in the upper RPM band for the entire run, not for something on the street or road course/backroads.

Get an InlinePRO or Go-Autoworks cast manifold, or a tubular log. That would be the best match for an LS engine that isn't revving really high when you're looking for response.
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:30 PM
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Default re: Nine3Sol's LS Turbo build needs assistance

Originally Posted by Chance EG View Post
A lot of websites offer a variety of housings for the 28RS, including the T3. I've seen it listed in several locations. Go-Autoworks also sells that combination.
Interesting. Thought it may have been a typo or somethin.. **shrug** I've owned 2 and did not have any other option than T25. #sadface
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Old 02-12-2019, 04:27 AM
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Default re: Nine3Sol's LS Turbo build needs assistance

Originally Posted by Chance EG View Post
Secondly, I don't know if anyone else has pointed out yet that using a GT28 frame turbo with a top mount manifold is a terrible match. The top mount manifolds are for maximum exhaust volume hitting larger frame turbos and more for straight line/drag racing where the car is in the upper RPM band for the entire run, not for something on the street or road course/backroads.

Get an InlinePRO or Go-Autoworks cast manifold, or a tubular log. That would be the best match for an LS engine that isn't revving really high when you're looking for response.
+1, good catch!

The GT28 can give you great mid-range power, but only if you build the rest of the setup to support that.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:36 AM
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Default re: Nine3Sol's LS Turbo build needs assistance

noted, what do you guys think of the PFAB log manifold.
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:45 AM
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Default re: Nine3Sol's LS Turbo build needs assistance

Originally Posted by Nine3Sol View Post
noted, what do you guys think of the PFAB log manifold.
Will be fine. A tubular log or “mini-ram” style is about the best you can do for street cars making under 400whp.
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Old 02-12-2019, 02:11 PM
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Default re: Nine3Sol's LS Turbo build needs assistance

Would you say that problems from the top mount would starve the small turbo or just kill its efficiency? From a technical stand point I know the top mount is the best for overall power potential in the top end RPMS. Although it has the slowest spool I thought the top mount would have the most use of exhaust energy without having deadspots where there is less exhaust going to the turbo.
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Old 02-12-2019, 02:15 PM
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Default re: Nine3Sol's LS Turbo build needs assistance

There's a difference between turbo lag and transient lag. With a top mount, you're going to have both.

You need something with shorter runners.
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Old 02-12-2019, 03:45 PM
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Default re: Nine3Sol's LS Turbo build needs assistance

I would not use a top mount manifold with a B18B motor. Like others have mentioned, go with a mini ram horn or log style.
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Old 02-12-2019, 03:51 PM
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Default re: Nine3Sol's LS Turbo build needs assistance

Originally Posted by NVturbo View Post
I would not use a top mount manifold with a B18B motor. Like others have mentioned, go with a mini ram horn or log style.
Noted, thank you.
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Old 02-12-2019, 04:22 PM
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Default re: Nine3Sol's LS Turbo build needs assistance



For 300whp I would say cast iron manifold for sure. Cheap, effective and better flow then a stainless log manifold from every one I've talked to. Also can't beat the durability when paired with proper socket cap bolts 12.9 grade. My old ls turbo made 314/280 on 17lbs with a cast iron log and eBay 50 trim and had very minimal lag and great throttle response. That was one of my favorite turbo setups hands

Last edited by TheShodan; 02-12-2019 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 02-12-2019, 04:28 PM
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Default re: Nine3Sol's LS Turbo build needs assistance

^^^ I had a similar setup in my old Civic hatch. Cast iron manifold (DRAG), Precision SC61, PWR fmic, Eagle rods, Wiseco pistons, sleeved block --- 22psi of boost >>>> 362hp/279tq. It was hella fun on the highway against V8s...LOL
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Old 02-12-2019, 05:49 PM
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Default re: Nine3Sol's LS Turbo build needs assistance

What did you do for the engine build? Stock Block or forged internals?
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