Syndacate

I say don't answer if u hate newbs because I don't need to get flamed for this question..

Rolls like this: Why do some cars have intercoolers, and some have intakes coming out of the turbo? I thought they were just different forms of induction and the intercooler cooled the air, I know I had an eclipse GSX which was turbocharged (wasn't turbocharged after I parked it in a ditch going a buck 20, but that's irrelavant) and it had the turbo out of the turbomanifold, don't remember if it was internal or external wastgate, but there was a CAI like short bar ram intake coming out of it - no intercooler, just went to the side and back up to the TB... Today I saw a car with an intercooler (and the pipping wrapped around from it), but there was still an air intake coming out of the side of the turbo...and that just made me go O.O ?????

So if anybody wants to hintme in on what the hell is up with that plz do, plz keep flames out of here...just remember before you flame that you were a FI newb at some point too...

FATBOYeg6

if you had a gsx, you had an intercooler. they mount on the side stock. the "short ram CAI" you are referring to is you intake pipe for the turbo. from the turbo, the pipe goes down the passenger (i think, long time since i looked under a dsm hood) side into the side mount intercooler. if you have more question i would pm me, and i will see if i can help. this thread will most likely get locked quick.

tonydatyga

air goes in to the compressor and out of it... intake go in, charged air go out to intercooler or throttle body. All functioning turbos have both

96 GSR-T

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tonydatyga &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">air goes in to the compressor and out of it... intake go in, charged air go out to intercooler or throttle body. All functioning turbos have both </TD></TR></TABLE>


And while I am at it......

4rc-fed

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/turbo.htm

xtremeness101

Intercoolers do not suck in air... compressed air from the turbo passes through the intercoolers core and gets cooled

00IntegrAllmotoR

iTrader: (1)

Get this!

yee SERIOUS

iTrader: (1)

i believe the intake you see is what goes to the turbo inlet.

Syndacate

Wow, didn't even know I had an intercooler on my GSX (didn't see one in the front so assumed I didn't) - alright, so why can't you run it right from the oulet to the TB? Can you just run it right from the turbo? Why do you need both? I realize it would be better to have both as the intercooler will cool the air making it more oxygenated and better for combusted, but why does there NEED to be an intercooler?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tonydatyga &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
air goes in to the compressor and out of it... intake go in, charged air go out to intercooler or throttle body. All functioning turbos have both
</TD></TR></TABLE>

and thx for the link, I see how it works now..but I still don't see the absolute need for the intercooler (although I'm well aware as it'll be a lot better to have one)....

96 GSR-T

my my my, without an intercooler you are pumping super hot air into your engine which causes detonation and pre-ignition etc bla bla...... take it from us, you need it unless you are running methanol or something like that, but from what you have just said, you are light years from something like that.

Syndacate

Ouch, lol, thx O.o

Yeah, I figured you'd be pumping hot air and it'd lead to bad things, didn't think of pre-ignition, that definately makes sense..but I didn't think u NEEDED one to run on a turbo..I was j/w b/c I've seen up in montana w/o intercoolers, and the way everybody was saying u NEED an intercooler I was like "well why can't u just go from the wastegate to the tb" but now I see u dont' NEED the intercooler, in Montana (I got a few friends out there) the air is always cold and is cold enough where you don't have to worry about sucking hot air and getting pre-ignition..


Okay, maybe for some opinions now...
Right now I have a '95 Civic EX (bone stock, Tweaked ECU, AEM short ram CAI and Fireball Exhaust). I was thinking about slapping a turbo on it (D16Z6) and running like 7lbs and using it as a daily driver...

The car's got 97k miles on it and has never been beat on (some mother had it...and she drove it good..clutch is perfect, and it's OEM from '95, and the guy who's a friend of mine who sold it to me from her (sale was done through him) said in all seriousness she didn't beat on it (and he's a friend so I do trust him)) So it's barely got any wear and tear on it, timing belt was done at 97k (when I bought the car), not sure if it was done b4 or not, oil every 3k, etc. etc. etc.

With that said, as we speak now the car is totalled, I got cut the check today and will have about $900 left over after I do the repairs (hood, radiator, upper rad support, both headlights, left corner light, and bumper + paint + labor (2k)) (I can't do body work for **** so I have to have somebody help me, and all the damage is body work), good guy, used to work in a proshop in NJ, known him my whole life, so I know the work's going to come out perfect like usual.. So with that $900 I figure i got two options...
1: I can buy a '97, '98, or '99 mitsubishi eclipse GS-T, I owned a GSX as my first car, I love the way the mitsubishi's handle (my ex-g/f's mom had a mitsubishi galant, handled very nicely as well) and they got nice size engines, good gas mileage, the GSX would get high mpg, like 33 or so mpg when drove it regular (a lot worse if I beat on it b/c of the turbo and extra pumpkin b/c it was full time AWD), but I put the eclipse into a ditch doin a buck 17 and twisted the **** outta the frame (couldn't even open the door)...so I'm thinking I can get the civic back, fixed, sell it for 4k + 900 (insurance leftover) and I'll have 5k (plus whatever other money I put in there, wanna seperate from my money I need for college books and money for car, but I might tap it a bit) to buy an eclipse with..

2: I make sure it's perfect, and slap a homemade turbo on it and run 7 or 8lbs tuned w/ crome or something of the sort and run it as a daily driver (which I rather do b/c it's hella cheaper) - and that'd make me happy (frankly I can't deal w/ the crappy 100 hp of the D16Z6 (the 125 factory number is at the flywheel I think)). I've heard in the civic/delsol '92 - '95 forum that u can usually put one together for around 600 so it should filll my budget quite nicely

Problem with #2:
Tons of people turbo D series on stock internals everyday, but my friend claims up and down there's no chance in hell I can turbocharge that engine (that it'll throw a rod or bearing or piston - it can't handle the force) - But people do it everyday on HT so I have a tendency NOT to believe him...if I did throw a turbo on it and run light PSI I'd run it light so it can be an everyday driver and so I DO NOT have to swap out internals (that's not where I want to go with this...)

So if anybody has any advice/help/suggestions plz tell me, b/c in a week the guy's coming back from vacation (week in burmudas) and he's gonna fix my car (figure week tops) so I'ma have it back in mint condition and I'm not gonna know what to do with it, my ideal hp is to get it up to what my GTI is putting out, my GTI is putting out (according to the manual) 174 at the wheels, but again it's also a race tuned and very aggressive engine, so I wanna put it up to or past 174, which I hear is possible runnign 8lbs or so on a D16...

Which runs me into the 2nd problem w/ number 2:
my friend (the one that thinks the D series will never hold a turbo w/o changing internals) is massively into civics and knows tons about cars (I think he's bullshitting me about the D series on purpose so that he doesn't have to help me with anythign :-P) is all I can really turn to for turbo help (him and here), other than that I know jack about a turbo (I spent a lot of toady reading up on it) but I don't know if I can hook one up or not, I suppose I can always hook it up mechanically and close the wastegate all the way (or open it, whichever closes off the turbo and opens the exhaust all the way) and just run it like that until I can finda professional that will tune it, but seeing as I don't know much about turbos, I am very mechanically inclined..but I don't know much about turbos..do you think I'd be able to hook it up myself and just run w/o it until I get it tuned? From what I see it's only bolts (for the mani/turbo/wastegate) and screws on the clamps (for the pipe connectors)besides electronics stuff (controller and ****) which I'll need help from HT on how to hook up...

Yeah, that's a lot of stuff to read, but some pple plz do and tell me what anybody thinks, suggestions, anything O.o besides flame is thx

PS: No I do not have 2500 I can dump into a Greddy super fu8king deluxe twin turbo premium supra turbo system to run 7 or 8 lowsy lbs...rather just turn to an old mitsu or eagle talon turbo and put together a system..

JDMs1eeper

How intercoolers work is the intercooler picks up the heat from the compressed air. The passing air from outside the intercooler, crossing over the fins, picks this heat that the intercooler picks up from the compressed air and transfer’s it to the passing air. Intercoolers remove heat and can lower IAT’s up to100degree’s at only 10psi of boost..

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

TypeSLO

outside temp isn't the same as the air the compressor is pushing. measure the intake air temp and you'll see why it's a good thing to have an intercooler. sure you can run a pipe from your compressor to your throttle body. you'll see very little pressure drop but you won't be able to boost as much as a setup with an intercooler. detonation is bad

awdgsx96

I make sure it's perfect, and slap a homemade turbo on it and run 7 or 8lbs tuned w/ crome or something of the sort and run it as a daily driver (which I rather do b/c it's hella cheaper) - and that'd make me happy (frankly I can't deal w/ the crappy 100 hp of the D16Z6 (the 125 factory number is at the flywheel I think)). I've heard in the civic/delsol '92 - '95 forum that u can usually put one together for around 600 so it should filll my budget quite nicely

When you say this, you also have to take into consideration the size of the turbo which you want to use. You mentioned an old Mitsu turbo. But at the same time you mentioned 174 HP and im assuming to the wheels. You want to do this on 7-8 psi which would be hard. DSM's run stock from 9-12 psi and barely push out 200awhp with a DOHC. Just something to think about maybe internals.

Syndacate

thx for explanation on intercoolers

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by awdgsx96 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I make sure it's perfect, and slap a homemade turbo on it and run 7 or 8lbs tuned w/ crome or something of the sort and run it as a daily driver (which I rather do b/c it's hella cheaper) - and that'd make me happy (frankly I can't deal w/ the crappy 100 hp of the D16Z6 (the 125 factory number is at the flywheel I think)). I've heard in the civic/delsol '92 - '95 forum that u can usually put one together for around 600 so it should filll my budget quite nicely

When you say this, you also have to take into consideration the size of the turbo which you want to use. You mentioned an old Mitsu turbo. But at the same time you mentioned 174 HP and im assuming to the wheels. You want to do this on 7-8 psi which would be hard. DSM's run stock from 9-12 psi and barely push out 200awhp with a DOHC. Just something to think about maybe internals.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hrm, Yeah, I want to put as much boost as I can w/o dicking with the engine (even if I don't throw a rod right away I don't want the engine to die in 5k miles because of ovewear), so whatever I can push w/o it being harmful to the engine is what I want to do.. but u say with 12 psi I can only put out 160 hp? That kinda sux (if you consider hte same displacement B16 (DOHC) can only put out 200hp with 12 lbs then u have ot consider the 40 hp difference so that would make .. Iono, I'm confused, 12lbs of pressure on a DOHC can only amke 20-40 hp??? That kinda really blows, might wanna check ur nubmers on that, I don't know much about turbos but I do know 12lbs will give u more than 30hp on a GSR or B16.., **** I/H/E will almost give u that..

Anybody know better hp ratings and for a SOHC and what's the maximum I can push out of there w/o damaging the engine? And back to my previous post about what I should do, anybody have suggestions or ideas on that?

Syndacate

blah*bump

elcangripapi

Well, heres something to think about. I have a greddy kit on my d16z6 running 5psi. You know that d16's have crappy whp. At 5 psi I now have 147whp 125torque. That should give you an idea of simple hp gains on a small turbo.

Syndacate

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by elcangripapi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well, heres something to think about. I have a greddy kit on my d16z6 running 5psi. You know that d16's have crappy whp. At 5 psi I now have 147whp 125torque. That should give you an idea of simple hp gains on a small turbo.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, wow, I didn't realize they sucked badly - they suck even worse than I thought they did, 4.4hp / lb of pressure, that's like, rediculously low (I know it's higher on a DOHC like a GSR but I didn't know it blew so badly for D series)

So unless ur putting out like 20psi (and u have to do full swaps on internals to run that) that's only 88 hp - wow, the D series sucks N/A AND FI, ****, I knew the D sucked, I didn't know it sucked that much :-\ --- Guess only option is swap (which costs too much if u want heavy hp or a car that doesn't only push out baby power

Okay, so thx for ur help guys

elcangripapi

lol, I think you completly missed what i was trying to say...

What I ment was the at 5psi I made a desent gain. You would be dum to underestimate what the d sereis is capable of. I dont think they are good for all motore set ups without a full build. But FI, lol. Just check this thread out, this will change your mind.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1418821

Soccerking3000

more like 10whp per psi stock z6;s have like 100whp from the factory so for 5 psi and gaining 50 whp i think thats pretty damn good

jdmbb6-t

dam............this is funny!

Syndacate

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Soccerking3000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">more like 10whp per psi stock z6;s have like 100whp from the factory so for 5 psi and gaining 50 whp i think thats pretty damn good</TD></TR></TABLE><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by elcangripapi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well, heres something to think about. I have a greddy kit on my d16z6 running 5psi. You know that d16's have crappy whp. At 5 psi I now have 147whp 125torque. That should give you an idea of simple hp gains on a small turbo.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Which one's right? ONe's saying approximately 10hp per psi, the other is saying 4hp per psi, it's a HUGE difference, u said ur running 5lbs and u only have 147hp, if u count that that was originally from 125hp, 147-125 is only a 22hp gain over a 5lbs boost and the other dude's talking about approximately 50hp gain over the same boost

so who's right?

elcangripapi

*sigh*

It all depends on your set up man...I am running without a intercooler and the stock dinky greddy down pipe. If I had an intercooler and a bigger down pipe I would probly make a lil more hp at 5 psi.

You cant just say 5psi = 50hp. It all depends on how you tune it and the size of turbo you have. Different size turbos can make diff amounts of hp at the same psi levels. You are going to have to research ALOT before you even think about touching theat wallet .

EDIT: And btw, d16's DO NOT HAVE 125 hp!!!!!!!! They have roughly 90-100 whp and nothing more. You dont get all the ponies honda said you got. I made almost 50hp on 5 psi not a 22hp gain lol

Syndacate

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by elcangripapi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">*sigh*

It all depends on your set up man...I am running without a intercooler and the stock dinky greddy down pipe. If I had an intercooler and a bigger down pipe I would probly make a lil more hp at 5 psi.

You cant just say 5psi = 50hp. It all depends on how you tune it and the size of turbo you have. Different size turbos can make diff amounts of hp at the same psi levels. You are going to have to research ALOT before you even think about touching theat wallet .

EDIT: And btw, d16's DO NOT HAVE 125 hp!!!!!!!! They have roughly 90-100 whp and nothing more. You dont get all the ponies honda said you got. I made almost 50hp on 5 psi not a 22hp gain lol</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hrm, I was reading up on turbos but the main thing they stressed about different size turbos was that a bigger turbo spools up more but takes more to spool it up (like it won't really begin to spool until 4k but it'll put almost 2x as much as one that'll spool up from 900, so I kinda see where that comes in :-\ -- Yeah, and pple in the civic/delsol forum kept sayin the D16Z6 had 125 hp..but I figured it was at the flywheel (less at the wheels) and that the torque is so low on hondas that would add to the low power :-\ -- I've noticed that a lot about hondas, like the Z-28 I was working on as a last project was putting out 530hp (approx), but it was also putting out like 535lbs of torque, the hondas all souped up put out like 300hp, and 250lbs of torque, it's rediculous torque to hp ratio :-\

So wouldnt' u want a bigger turbo anyways for a daily driver? I'd be stressing it as far as I can w/o endangering the internals so I'd want the most power for however many lbs I decide to cap off at.. At the same time that bigger turbo doesn't kick in until say 4k then it kinda renders it useless as a daily driver..blah, it gets complex O.O