juanmedina

Where to start.... I own a 07 Subaru WRX and I burnt a valve, I decided to buy a honda to drive around while a fix it. My WRX is the fastest VF39 Sti turbo in the world with a trap speed of 121mph. This was done on E85, with some weight reduction, full interior and E85. Only two subarus in the world have gone over 120mph with a VF series turbo.

I picked up a 1997 civic HX is in amazing condition is 100% stock and it drives better than my subaru . I wonder how much and what will it take to make 350-400whp on a civic? how reliable will it be? I would like to run E85.

I been reading a little and a k20 swap is out of the question is way too expensive. I would like the best power band possible while keeping the setup simple and quite. What kind of traps will I see with 350whp? how about 400whp? on a full weight HX? I need 320whp with my subaru to trap 121mph with 2770lbs + 160lbs driver.

I read a lot about B18s, B16s, D16s etc etc there is too many options and is very confusing, I am looking for a cheap route.

Thanks

Juan

robbieshonda

welcome to this side of the house juan lol. hope you get the wrx back together soon. hondas are way to easy to make power with. 30r e ocho cinco and very minimal mods needed for 400

juanmedina

Thanks Robbie. Can you suggest me a setup?

What engine?
What turbo kit?
What size injectors? I imagine 1000cc
What clutch?
What kind of trap speed to expect at 350whp and 400whp full weight?
What stuff do I have to change for E85?
An estimate of the total cost if I have a shop do it.

My subaru lasted 2 years/ 30K miles with 320-400whp.

I been reading and it seems that a stock B18C1 can take the power stock everything. Can I do it with a cheaper engine?

stock95coupe

It depends on what you want - street car, track car, or dyno queen.

400whp is nearing the upper end for unleaded gas, and ~50hp more with E85. Anymore would require a crazy setup/oversized turbo that will be more of a dyno queen with a laaaate powerband.

General Honda info: Piston ringlands are the weakest link for all motors, with rods & sleeves tied for a distant 2nd. A large majority of builds use genuine OEM parts for everything internal (besides cams/pistons/rods). Sleeving the engines is reliable, but costs around $1000. There are many cases of 400+ on bone-stock motors. All B-series share the same exhaust manifold bolt pattern. Practically all Hondas use Speed Density (MAP sensor), and are limited to 10psi unless you get a different MAP sensor. No simple flashing some tuner's upload.

D16: cheapest, but you get what you pay for. Trannys have poor gearing, but you have options with aftermarket parts. Same for the rest of the engine, but there's no replacement for displacement. Most non-vtec heads can flow as much as vtec heads.

B16xx: relatively cheap, lot of bang for the buck. Rather high compression, generally people use a larger turbo at lower pressure. Built it can run higher boost, but always lacks torque. Beware that there are many b16 variants.

B18B1 aka "LS": one of the best bang for the buck, but a vtec head swap (ls/vtec) is usually cheaper than building the LS head. I always recommend this for a budget power build - it's easier to upgrade a head after the fact than the bottom end. Dislikes high-rpm, and the trannies are long-geared.

B18C1 aka "GSR": very good base for a stock or built setup. You get torque and HP, and can swap torque for HP if you ditch the stock intake manifold.

B18C5 aka "ITR/Type-R": nets a bit more HP than a GSR, but it's usually cheaper to build a GSR for the same power. Very touchy stock due to compression ratio.

B20xx: b-series big-block. Sleeves can be a problem, as can the head. People add a vtec head to get the best of both worlds, torque and HP.

H,F,K-series: not the best for HP/dollar, same if it's your "other" car.

*Supercharing: works well on Hondas, but generally can't hold a candle to the raw power of a turbocharged car.


300-400whp is surprisingly easy to get to with Hondas for not that much money. They'll also stay together a long time if you toss in forged internals & a decent tune. FWD will hamper your ET but not so much your trap. 300whp can be enough for 120mph if you do it right (gutted w/slicks), 400whp is hard not to get around 120mph.

stock95coupe

FYI almost nothing in Honda land is refered to as "stage X". It's more by HP level.

Want to turbocharge? Hondata/Neptune/Ectune OBD1 EMS.

200whp? Injectors and heavy full-face clutch.

300whp? Puck-type clutch/PP, bigger turbo/exhaust.

400whp? Better intercooler, 4bar MAP sensor, possibly forged internals, aftermarket axles.

500whp? Internals, headwork, big turbo, Tranny work & LSD if you want to move. Notice we don't just raise boost, Honda guys curiously don't max out their turbos first.

600whp? Better gas, turbo, manifolds, cams.

700whp+? A big budget and a good tuner...

If you want a better powerband, build for 100whp more but use a smaller turbo. If you want to trade reliablity for budget, build for 100whp less.

98cdmej6

look into the b18b1's turbo'd they can make 300hp on stock internals but only with a really good tune with rods n pistons prolly close to 400
and wont WReXplode ha

welfarepc

i like to build D series motors (what you have in there already) its pretty easy to get a civic in the 10s with 400whp.

your D16 isnt really the best candiate for boosting since its an HX (fuel economy model) but if u can find a D16Y8 head from EX u will be set. you can throw some rods and pistons in the bottom end (look into vitara pistons and FJT i beams) and make 400whp pretty easy... t3/t4 50/57/60 trim will do the trick. .63 hot side bare minimum.

rabbid sir

iTrader: (1)

Very easy to make 400. Especially with E85. Many people will flame me for this but a stock B16 with a kit based on a GT30R would be perfect. As for fuel, any of the new 340lph intank pumps and ID 1000cc injectors and a boost dependent regulator. Nothing else needs to be changed to use E85. Clutch, if you are on a budget, just get an exedy stage 2 kit with flywheel. Engine management = Hondata s300/hondata 4 bar map sensor. Reliable 400hp with a VERY wide power band that WILL last!

wolve

a bone stock gsr will suit you best, stock tranny/axles/block will hold up just fine for 350-400whp. this'll also be a good platform to build further upon once your hooked...

add springs/retainers to expand your powerband an extra 1000rpm above stock revlimit

300whp will get you 120mph quite easily in your chassis.

so:

rabbid sir

iTrader: (1)

^ yea what he said too. I just chose a b16 because they are easier to find and cheaper. Honestly, the tq difference between the 2 @ 400hp would be minimal.

wolve

remember he's a subaru guy

they are used to spool @ 3-4k

b16 + 400whp turbo is going to spool monstreously late in the opinion of a subaru owner

rabbid sir

iTrader: (1)

Not if he uses a gt30 like I suggested

wolve

yeah your right, keep forgetting he'll run e85 so he can boost pretty high up reaching for 400whp on a smallish snail.

b16+stock cr+gt30R= nice combo for this guy

juanmedina

Thanks guys

thats a lot of good info.

How reliable are the built engines? on my subaru they don't last very people start to consume crazy amounts of oil after 30k miles. I would like to run a stock motor if possible since they seem to last the longest.

Thaks, I will be happy with even 350whp this cars are very light so it would be very fun.

How about the GTX3071? it should spool even faster with about the same whp output .

Which tranny would you run? will they be able to hold the power?

Thanks

haha my subaru now has 49lb/min turbo it spool like the stock STi turbo but it should trap 130mph.

Thanks I don't want to go crazy just something simple and reliable.

Any idea on the cost? which turbo kits do you guys recommend? where can I get the engine? ebay or .....?

rabbid sir

iTrader: (1)

The gtx is baller. That would suit your needs well. Transmission of choice would be a Gsr.

welfarepc

really longevity depends on a lot of things, mostly the tune.

cant expect a motor thats running 400% increase in power to last too long.

but then again its not like ur driving in boost the whole time.


if u want to keep the block stock, dont get a D series. they will not take more than about 200-250whp on stock rods and pistons. the rods are about as thick as my pinky finger (not joking)

Hidenplanvew

I have an 05 legacy gt, 300 awhp and 320ftlbs... I drive my honda Daily

If you want cheap power I would do a

B16 or B18B1
Eagle Rods, Aries Pistons
1000cc injectors (ID, PT, RC,)
PT6262 or PT6768
Hondata
Neo Gen tires


B16= less tq but less broken things (same for D16z6)
B18b1 = Tons of tq and pretty fun on the street... Screw Ls/vtec... Sorry guys, If your going to do it correctly get a gsr block with ls crank, rods..

Built Hondas tend to hold up better then Like the EJ20 and Ej25.. Altho I love the EJ255, I would take a built honda anyday

wolve

tune is everything, cast components and stock sleeves don't like shitty tunes

you have multiple options for the engine with budget/preference/future plans being the main factor.

- D16Z6 (or equal) with FJ rods and vitara's (are strong cast pistons so no sloppy P2W). cams are advised to reach for 350+whp
- B18A/B with eagle and wiseco (forged piston but high silicon content). cams are advised to reach for 350+whp
- B16A fresh rebuild with all stock components
- B18C1 fresh rebuild with all stock components

aim for the loose side of the stock clearances

to support these longblocks to an comfortable/safe 350+whp:
- intake mani (skunk2 or alike)
- ID1000's injectors (best 1000cc's i have ever driven/tuned)
- good quality turbokit with GT30 or similair
- intank walbro 225 hp
- 3inch exhaust
- chipped ecu
- ectune/neptune/hondata (wichever your tuner likes)
- good tuner

that's about it...

oh and uh sticky tires

stock95coupe

There aren't nearly as many built motors that are even tested to 10k, let alone 50k+. Most people sink $10k into just the motor, more on the turbo kit, and then there's the car costs. They end up parting out their project (lack of funds) or hiding it in the garage afraid of it being stolen. Or they buy a house or start a family, etc.

The people who have done their math & built it correct for 30k+ will last that long if they treat it well. I've seen a few post up they have 50k+ w/o problems, and some with odd stuff like cracked skirts on their forged pistons. The best advice for that is a good tune that you check on periodicly, and a larger engine like an H22. The less % you power over stock, the more likely it will last a long time.

Talk to extralargenog on here, he has a very high-hp accord that sees lots of abuse and daily excursions.

EsotericImage

iTrader: (8)

wolve

the goals this guy is aiming for require no where near the investments you're talking about, but your right. far to many people go to big right away and never finish/drive the ****.

if you do a vitara d16 with a decent turbokit you should not spend more then 5k all-in for 350whp

Rexican

Whats up Juan,

I just sold my 05 wrx the other week. Got 09 Si sedan now and loving it. Goodluck on this project and looking forward to seeing your build