B00stedCoupe

They claim that it has no mechanical parts and will spray using engine vacuum to draw water into the motor. but #14 on their FAQ's doesnt make sense.

"A turbo-charged vehicle and/or a super-charged vehicle, never, ever will it ever pressurize the intake manifold. The turbo-charge and super-charge only ASSIST the cylinder fill. In other words, assisting the incoming vacuum. In essence, the intake manifold actually has a higher vacuum range and a much more prolonged vacuum range."

Since when turbos dont pressurise the intake manifold?

please check out their site and tell me what you think http://aquatune.com/faq.html

B00stedCoupe

ttt

tony1

Well, if you have a turbo and still have vacuum in the manifold under "boost" then you've got a damn good head!! An intake manifold will only be in vacuum under light load...

B00stedCoupe

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well, if you have a turbo and still have vacuum in the manifold under "boost" then you've got a damn good head!! An intake manifold will only be in vacuum under light load...</TD></TR></TABLE>

so you have 0 vacuum @ 1 psi?

Tinker219

no, 1psi = 1psi. PSI is measured right from the intake manifold...

B00stedCoupe

so this kit wont work with boost as they claim right?

Tinker219

not unless they can find a way to get vaccum to suck the alchy out...

tz-devil77

it would work before you were actually in boost. Like if you had a monster *** turbo with some serious lag right?

B00stedCoupe

Ok I spoke to a dealer. he said that it works especially well on turbo cars because once in boost the velocity of the air pulls the water as vacuum would.

johnisenglish

That doesn’t even make sense? Like Tinker said, 1psi is 1psi, and that means that for every 1 square inch of space there is going to be 1 pound of force pushing away from the intake manifold. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Flow velocity has nothing to do with it, as they're effectively claiming that there's suction in the intake manifold while its in boost?

On their site they claim an increase of power of up to 30%? Based on the fact that they use a 2 quart tank (which means 1 quart of alcohol since they recommend a 50/50 mix) and say it only needs to be refilled when you normally refill your gas tank, that doesn’t make any chemical sense, there simply isn't enough available energy in that small amount of alcohol to do anything useful over such a long period of time.

I don't know, maybe you need an electric supercharger and turbo muffler for it to work right?

tz-devil77

but what boostedcoupe is saying is that when the boost is happen it is not creating vacuum it is making a vacuum and sucking the stuff out of the container(like a wind suction)

johnisenglish

But air pressure and flow doesnÂ’t work like that. For the alcohol to be reasonably expected to be sucked into the cylinders it would have to be located directly in the path of the air flowing from the throttle body to the intake manifold runners, being at the source is located outside of the intake manifold its just going to be pushed away as soon as you get into boost. Positive pressure means that the air in the manifold is pushing out in all direction, and I see no possible way, based on the setup they describe, that there can be any alcohol pulled through the lines while in boost.

I've been looking through the site some more just for laughes, and under the emissions tesimony section they have:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
1994 Toyota Tercel
This test had to be aborted because the vehicle was burning oil excessively past the engine rings. After the water injection system was installed the vehicle was allowed run for two hours and the smoke emissions were cleared up and the rings cleaned up.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

That makes even less sense then everything else! Alchol is much more corrosive then gasoline (which is the number one reason why it is appropriate in a street car, imo) and water vaper simply takes up useful space in the combustion chamber. Neither of those can possibly re-seal piston rings and stop and engine from burning oil, if anything they'd perpetuate the problem.

As a rule of thumb never trust anyone who says that a Turbocharged Car's intake manifold is "never pressurized" and claims they have a miracle product that give you a 30% power gain and make your engine new again for under $100.

B00stedCoupe

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johnisenglish &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But air pressure and flow doesn’t work like that. For the alcohol to be reasonably expected to be sucked into the cylinders it would have to be located directly in the path of the air flowing from the throttle body to the intake manifold runners, being at the source is located outside of the intake manifold its just going to be pushed away as soon as you get into boost. Positive pressure means that the air in the manifold is pushing out in all direction, and I see no possible way, based on the setup they describe, that there can be any alcohol pulled through the lines while in boost.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The 4 injectors for the alky are placed on each runner of the manifold. now if the liquid is being pushed in all directions wont it most likey travel where there is least resistance? I mean it is a mist and the pressurised air is moving towards the combustion chamber I wouldnt expect it to flow upstream back towards the intercooler and turbo.


Modified by B00stedCoupe at 11:16 AM 10/22/2003

johnisenglish

If there were pressurized injectors (like fuel injectors) then sure, it would work fine, but the system they describe has no pump, no source of pressure, no nothing, and because of that the only thing that can bring the alcohol / water mix out of the reservoir and into the intake manifold is a force in the direction of the intake manifold, ie vacuum. Once the intake manifold is place under positive pressure, however, it doesn’t matter if you have the best flowing runners and head in existence, the fact that there's positive pressure exerted on the line carrying the mix is going to push it back, not bring it in.

B00stedCoupe

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johnisenglish &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If there were pressurized injectors (like fuel injectors) then sure, it would work fine, but the system they describe has no pump, no source of pressure, no nothing, and because of that the only thing that can bring the alcohol / water mix out of the reservoir and into the intake manifold is a force in the direction of the intake manifold, ie vacuum. Once the intake manifold is place under positive pressure, however, it doesnÂ’t matter if you have the best flowing runners and head in existence, the fact that there's positive pressure exerted on the line carrying the mix is going to push it back, not bring it in.</TD></TR></TABLE>


That makes total sense.but the thing that got me was the anology they used with the turbo carbureted buick. it is true that carbs use vacuum to draw fuel into the motor, whether boosted or not. and the pre 83 grand nationals and turbo regals were all carbuerated. why is it carbed motors still have vacuum under boost ?

B00stedCoupe

up

johnisenglish

There are two ways to setup a Carb with a turbo setup. One is to use a normal draw-through carb (the kind in which engine vacuum pulls fuel though) and set it up before the compressor, where there is always vacuum (and very strong vacuum at that), but the problem with that is that the rest of the induction system thereafter has to follow a downward path to keep the fuel from coming out of the air mixture. The other method is to use a blow-through carb (which I'm unframiler with so I won't get into) that is placed after the compressor but before the throttle body and keep in both vacuum and boost. They're really better in every way, but didn't catch on until the early 80's, and at that point things were moving towards Fuel Injection anyway.

B00stedCoupe

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johnisenglish &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> The other method is to use a blow-through carb (which I'm unframiler with so I won't get into) that is placed after the compressor but before the throttle body and keep in both vacuum and boost.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So couldnt the alky nozzle go there and still work under boost?

johnisenglish

No, because the fuel going to the blow through carb is coming through a pressurized line (from an FPR similar in function to an FMU), and thus able to travel against the force of the boost. If you just put a line going to an alcohol tank there it would still be pushed back while under boost.

Again, if the alcohol nozzle was pressurized and function like a fuel injector then the system could work (although as previously stated, the system is a bunch of junk anyway) in a turbocharged engine.