turbopanda

Since i'm unable to find another B18C shortblock to replace the bottom half of my engine which I damaged in my integra, i'll most probably be putting in a B20B. However, money restricts me from buying the forged pistons and rods (its a shame I won't be able to use my existing JE/Eagle stuff from my B18C), so considering I already have a built B18C head + RC 550's + standalone engine management.. what kind of beating can the B20B's stock pistons and rods handle (will be lowering the C/R to around 8.5:1). I'll buy the rods and pistons later, but for now, will have to run with this. I'd appreciate any advice, since no one has ever done B20B turbo over here in Thailand before..

If you need info on my setup, just click on the link to my integra in my signature..





[Modified by turbopanda, 2:02 PM 9/12/2002]

Mr. Softee

get an old ls block, resleeve it, and put inyour old stuff. thats mya dvice.

turbopanda

fROM what i've heard, the rod length in a B18B is not the same as a B18C (or something). I can't use my existing B18C crankshaft either, as it got damaged.

turbopanda

What kind of boost can I be pushing safely without damaging the pistons and rods? I'll probably be installing a blockguard too..


[Modified by turbopanda, 2:14 PM 9/12/2002]

liam821

buy this from me...

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=275755

liam

Mr. Softee

so use a b18b crank tha comes with the block i suggestd or buy another gsr crank.

turbopanda

Can someone explain to me what the difference is between the bottom half of a B18C block and a B18B block? I'm extremely confused here. One person's telling me I can't use my B18C stuff in a B18B, and now there's people here telling me that I can.. argh!

Mr. Softee

**** im so confused its too late here i think im posting garbage.. im really sorry.

to answer your quesiton, you can run an ls block with gsr crank.

turbopanda

but my JE 81.5mm pistons and eagle rods (for B18C), my blockguard.. they will all work in a B18B block with B18B crankshaft without any modifications? What exactly needs to be done, as I have access to many B18B blocks..

inspyral

B18B/B20 have a longer stroke, that's all I know...

Speed PHreak

The Big differences between the B18B and B18C bottom-ends

B18C vs B18B

- B18C's rods are slightly smaller on the big ends than the B18B's, doens't mean they are weaker, just different.
-Stroke lengths, rod lengths and deck heights are different between the 2 engines
- B18C's have a 3 row girdle across the center 3 main caps, B18B's do not.
-B18C's oil pump flows better than a B18B (b20 uses the same oil pump as a B18C however)
-B18C's have oil squireters in the bottom-end
-B18C cranks are better balancd from what i've been told, and I think they have more counter-weighting? ~ not to sure on that one

-B20B vs B18B
- B20 has a higher flow oil pump
- Stroke, rod length, deck hieght are all indentical, the B20 has an 84mm bore.
- B20's have a single peice sleeve, it's supposed to be stronger but it's still fairly thin and has been known to crack easier under abuse than an LS would.


Now that that is out of the way, why don't you bolt the B18C head you've got onto the B20 or LS bottom-end? Turbo'd it's be fairly quick even at low boost.

Mr. Softee

turbopanda your rods wont fit on the ls crank.

turbopanda

That's what I'll be doing.. grabbing that B20B and putting on my B18C head. As long as the stock internals can take 8-10psi, I guess I should be happy with the power. Even in NA form, the torque I get from my Civic is amazing.. wondering how it'd be with some boost

Mr. Softee

stock internals will not be happy revving to 8 grand at 8-10psi of boost... not to mention the fact that your piston to valve clearance will be very small and compression decently high as you will need to resurface the head most likely after blowing the last block.

quikB18B

I drove the **** out of mine and it took 5 months to go. My story was rod bolt failure they simply backed out and sent the rod cap thru the block. I hardly lost any compression and pistons and sleeves look way better than we expected. The problem with b20 is reving those damn rods to 8 grand is not good!!!!! Anyhow i would say run 7 psi and maintain the car it should last you until you build the bottom end.

turbopanda

My B18C head is fully built. Ferrea valves, crower springs, crower retainers, port'n'polished... when I do change the pistons and rods to something of the forged type, it'd still be dangerous taking it to 8000-8500rpm in a B20B? I will be installing a blockguard (some people hate them, but I've never had problems with them) and running a low compression ratio (possibly 8.2:1, somewhere about there).. I want to get this right the first time.. with stock internals, with the blockguard and lower C/R.. I shouldn't push it over 7psi and not over 7500rpm?

jinxproof99

at 9:1 compression or under, and your management/550 injectors, 10 psi should not be a problem on pump gas. providing your using a t3/4 turbo. keep the gas atleast 91 octane, 93-94 prefered. a friend of mines been running 10-11 lbs of boost on 93 octane with 440's and an afc. no problems. 17 lbs of boost on race gas.

.......and revving to 8000 hasn't been a problem with better springs and retainers.


[Modified by jinxproof99, 12:37 AM 9/13/2002]

Mr. Softee

oh nevermind i thought you were going to run stock internals on the b20. This thead is confusing the **** out of me.

turbopanda

OK, thanks a lot I appreciate the help. Any idea of how much it'll cost me for a good reliable set of B20B forged pistons (9:1) with good rods, ARP rodbolts, rod bearings (if I have to use something other than those for the B20B) and rings? Anything else I need to do to the bottom half of the engine for boost? Also, I noticed you guys in the US use the B20Z.. will these parts fit the B20B okay?

madslackin

To address what was mentioned above. Your b18c head in stock form - much less built like yours is - is more than happy to rev to 8000. It's the bottom end that will give you problems. b18b/b20 are known for rod bolt problems at higher RPMs so if you can keep the revs to 7500 or so you'll be plenty safe.

I believe that your b20b is equivalent to our b20z. In fact I think that every country outside of the US only got on b20 while the US got two (a shitty one and a less shitty one). The pistons are the only difference you need to worry about but the bore and everything else is the same. Any b20 pistons will work for you. You'll want to get some pistons designed for b20vtec applications so they will have large enough valve reliefs. Look into Wiseco or JE and expect to spend about $500-$600 US, including rings. Rods should be under $350 for some Eagles which come with ARP bolts. Rod bearings, use stock Honda ones.

I don't want to add any more confusion to the thread but based on how much boost you plan on running you might consider having the block sleeved. Like I said, it really depends on how much boost and how well you tune it. Sleeving is not cheap.

Justin

DC2R714

Doesn't the B20B not come with a block girdle, which allows the Type R and GSR to rev higher than the B18B and B20. I know I saw a post on how to make block girdles for the B20/18 vtecs. Perhaps that could help out with reving to 8grand.

Speed PHreak

The "proper" way to install a girdle

The way I did it

Also i'm sure you'll need to look into the valve clearance problems the B20vtec's have. I'm sure aftermarket piston will have bigger valve recesses, but the stock b20 valve recess in the piston aren't quite large enough to accomidate the VTEC valves. With cam tuning or aftermarket cams, you can get valve to piston contact.


[Modified by Speed PHreak, 3:59 PM 9/13/2002]

turbopanda

I will have the piston head's recesses increased in size so that the valves don't hit. Any other things I should look out for? How about the ideal place to tap the block for oil to the VTEC + turbo?

turbopanda

Before this post disappears into oblivion, does anyone have any more good hints & tips to share with all those of us who are doing B20B turbo's?